Saturday, September 15, 2007

Kongu Vellala Gounder history

See Kongu Kulagurus
Also History of Kongadesam
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The history of the Kongu Vellala Gounder caste has been made to be one of the most obscure along with the history of the Kongunadu region itself. The Gounders have been credited by many as unique among the other caste groups of the region and southern India as a whole. The Kongu Vellala Gounders are appreciated for their varied qualities like untiring hardwork, objective nature, high moderation, honesty, humanitarian spirit, commitment, philanthrophy, strong bonding, innovative mind and reliability. They have been instrumental in the welfare of the Kongunadu zone, which is predominantly rainfed but blest with a cooler tropical plateau climate. This region supports the Tamil Nadu state from economic collapse and single handedly manages its fame.
The secrets for such a developed region go back to the Gounder caste which mostly go unresearched partly due to the heavy stench of ideological biases of contemperory Tamil historians and partly due to the jelousey and the resulting fear of the caste itself. The author of this blog, himself a Gounder belongs to the Elumathur Panangadai clan, seeks to venture at the various facets of the inseperable Gounder and Kongu histories. The readers are advised to have a prior reading of the author's blog on Kongu history before going through this blog for easing their strain.


The Gounders are the single largest agrarian and intra-marriagable caste hailing from the Kongunadu (Sans: Ganganadu) region which forms the western part of the present linguistically organised Tamilnadu state. Unofficial population estimates give figures around the seventy to eighty lakh margin. There have also been some exaggerated estimates from about one to one and a half crore people of the caste. The population surpasses that of the other landed castes as a single mass unit.

The Gounders have however reached this level coming down from 1/4th of the total state popualtion during the British Raj. This is even before the government launched popular population control measures which has surprised the social scientists. The child control measures started from the pre-independence era, mostly as a localised phenomenon due to high economic growth. When the government announced the two children norm, the Gounders were already having upto 80% of single child families. Now the estimates stand around a near hundred.Today one can see single child families in thousands of their families thereby might be credited as the only caste in India having reverse growth ratio thus projected to lose its majority status in the region. This along with the nuclear families concept has made the individual families prosper though shattering many of the age old cherished values of Gounders. These single children from the lonely nuclear families (which includes the family of the author himself) have become lonely isolated and self-centered individuals popularly called ''islands''. Thus the community is losing its identity and distinct culture due to over adherence to norms. This materialist lifestyle has resulted in the steady decline of the Gounders to 10% of the total state population from the pre-independence 25%. This self centered lifestyle has resulted in the undesirable increase of egotic personalities unwilling to unite even at the most demanding situations. Thus Gounders are silently slipping into political and demographical doom though outwardly they seem to prosper. We have to remember that no government eternally is steady to guarentee safety and there is always a safety in numbers. Cocerned scientists have warned the community to have atleast two children per family to maintain steady trends.

The traditional Gounder belt is the area now known as Kongu Nadu. This areas comprises the lower nine districts of the lower Kaveri catchment basin, forming the western part of Tamil Nadu: Coimbatore, Ooty, Erode, Karur, Salem, Namakkal, Dharmapuri, Krishnagiri (all taluks of these districts), Dindigul (the taluks of Palani tk., Oddanchatram tk., Dindugul tk., Vedasandur and Kodaikkanal tk northward slopes only), Tiruchirapalli (Tottiyam tk. , Pachamalai , Villupuram (Kalrayan hills only), Perambalur (Pachamalai hills only) and Vellore (Tirupattur tk. only).

By the population statistics, again estimates, These specified regions have a Gounder population somewhere around 50 and 80% of the total regional population.

A secondary population of anywhere between 1 and 5% can be found in the districts of Theni, Madurai, Thanjavur (all in Tamil Nadu), Palakkad, Malappuram, Idukki (all in Kerala), Kollegal, Mysore, Chamrajnagar, Kolar, Mandya, and Bangalore (all five in Karnataka).

Gounder history:

Origin of Kongu and Kongunadu:

Lessons from the Mahabharatam :

The region of Kongunadu originally belongs to the Kurinji (tropical evergreen mountainous) and Mullai types (tropical deciduous plateau) which were originally densely to medium sparsely forested. The Gounders have in living memory, the very different days from now, when people moved around far and wide but within the forested Kaveri catchment valley with their cow herds. These people did not settle down at a single major point in history. There are such cowherds even to be found today in the remote forests of the Sathiyamangalam ghats for example. The herds were vast and mostly belonged to the Konga (now called Kangayam) cattle type. This is reflected in the Mahabharata references in the Kongunadu where Bhisma and the Kauravas came for a cattle raid which is in the pattern called Vetchi (Tam:வெட்சி) in Sangam literature, where cattle, the primary wealth of the people is taken as stake to initiate a war. Kongumandalasatakam says that the cattle raid was sucessfully repelled by Arjuna (Bruhannala) with Uttarakumaran, the son of the King Viratarayan of Ladapuram (modern Dharapuram) at a skirmish at the banks of the Kanchi (Noyil) (dates: 3100 B.C, Mahabharata). This place was named Tiruppur or the place where the cattle were rerouted back to Ladapuram. These shifting farmer-cattleherd villages were called pattis after the cow pens. The main food products were cow milk and dry crops like Aariyam (Varaku or Ragi), Kambu, Cholam and Tinai. They also exchanged these produce for rice from marginal settled farmers. Many clan or kootam names remind of such great cowherds and marginal landlords.

Lessons from the Annamar and Valipulla Goundan stories:

The fist fixed settlements in Kongu history were at the Amaravati -Noyil valley because of the perennial supply of water from the Palani Koadaikkanal and Vellingiri ranges. The cowherd rearing shifting farmers achieved a sustained state and organised themselves as Velallas or landlords. They later, for deforesting the land brought in the Vettuvar tribes, descendents of Kannappa Nayanar from the Kalahasti region. These Vettuvar hamlets were called Vadugapattis, literally northener's cowpens. The Vettuvars also being sucessful, at one stage became numerically equal to the Vellalars. They also started questioning the authority of Vellalars. This is the point when we see the Vettuva-Vellala war symbolised by the Chinnanan- Periyannan story. The Vettuvars, eventhough being later settlers take advantage of their increased numbers and challenge the Vellalars through committing excesses on Vellala territory and harassing Vellala women. Here is where God or eternal order intervenes. Sivan, in order to support the order, steps in himself brings up the brothers who are killed at birth by their uncle. The first settler of any land has the rights of ruling and defending it, though the ownership might change hands. This is the Indian concept of the native's right. The native Vellalas, who were such an agrarian-warrior tribe or the Vellala-Kshatriya tribe, defeat the Vettuvars and place them under their subjection. Decrease in forests and increase in farming also leads to thier decrease in numbers and increase of Vellala natives.

Valipulla Goundan story also reflects Vellalar - Vettuvar friction but with a different lesson for us. Here when the Vettuva barber asserts his rights to serve the Goundan eventhough he insults him by leaving him half shaved (a great insult in those days) and follows his Vettuva cheiftain, Valipulla refuses his service but the barber insists (here we come to know the right of the so called lower service castes to demand compulsory service). They agree for a caste panchatyat where all important clan leaders are invited as witnesses. The Vettuva barber devises a clever method (because he is the affected party here) where the dog of Valipulla would be offered food by him. If the dog eats it, Valipulla is to accept his services and if not, could refuse him. Here again God (or the spirit of orderliness) in the form of Vinayakar assists Valipulla's dog which urinates on the food. Valipulla then marries his two sons to the two daughters of Vellala Chettiars (a merchant trader community who dealt in agri produce) to beget Kongu Napitha (Nasuvan) children. Again there is a lesson for us. Why should they marry Chettiar girls to beget Napitha children? and Why can't they just become Napithas? According to the rules of Anulomam (recorded earliest in the Manu Smruti), when a higher Varnam boy marries a girl from a lower Varnam, the children born are the Sudras or the service castes who are promotional to the society. If the opposite happens, then it is called Pratilomam where the children born are Panchamas or untouchables. Here the marriage is between the Kshatriya boys and Vaisya girls, where as Manusmruti says, the children begotten are Napithas or barbers. Thus from the demographics of Kongunadu, we come to know that the Anulomam and Pratilomam (intercaste) marriages were near zero and happened only according to calculated marriages to fulfil necessity.

The various people who had settled at different places for agriculture still went to their Patti cowherd gods where they had originated which later were called the Kanikkoils. No other caste in India has such precise Kuladeivams or such kootam (Gotram) system which is to remind us of our greatness and thus culture good qualities befitting to the kootam.

The Sangam age:

We have to remember that though the geographical region is called Kongunadu in Tamil, the name is a derivent of Kanga (கங்க) (Komaralingam copperplates) and ultimately Kanganadu (கங்கநாடு) (Sanskrit: Ganganadu, or the land of the Ganga people). The region streched throughout the Kaveri catchment basin. As even a 17th century poet, Valasundara Kavirayar in his Kongumandalasatakam versifies the borders of Kongunadu.

வடக்கு  தலைமலை வராககிரி தெற்கு
குடக்குப் பொறுப்பு வெள்ளிக் குன்று கிடக்கும்
களித்தண்டலை மேவு காவிரிசூழ் நாட்டுக்
குளித்தண்டலை யளவு கொங்கு.

From this we ascertain that the borders of 17th century Kongu were:

Northern: Talaimalais
Southern: Varahagiri (Panrimalai mountain in the Palani-Kodaikkanal ranges, Panrimalai is referred in it's Sanskrit name).
Eastern: Vellikundru (Vellingiri hills near Coimbatore which form the border with Malayalam).
Western: Kulithalai (Mayanur Madukkarai , Karur dist. located on the Karur- Tiruchirappalli highway).
Further he adds that the region is like a basin (Kavirisoozh) and surprises us with his geographical knowledge through expressing Kongu as the entire Kaveri catchment basin, the Kaveri valley.

This region comprises of the following modern districts of the following states.

In Tamilnadu: Coimbatore, Erode, Udagamandalam, Krishnagiri, Dharmapuri, Salem, Namakkal, Karur, Dindigul (excluding the Nattam, Nilakkottai and southward slopes of Kodaikkanal taluk), Vellore (Tiruppattur taluk only), Villuppuram (Kalrayan hills only), Perambalur (Pachamalai hills only) and Tiruchirappalli (Pachamalai hills, Tottiyam tk).

In Kerala:  Palakkad (left bank of Valayar and Kozhinjamparai block), Malappuram (Bhavani river valley only) and Idukki (Amaravati river valley only) .

One thing which got clear beyond doubt after my research which is also commonplace knowledge is that the Kongu region, from the dawn of history is always connected to the southern part of the Karnataka state which is given, which is also called in Karnataka as Mysore Karnataka or Hoysala Karnataka. The Kongu region has always been along with this region as a Geo-historical unit from the dawn of history to the collapse of the Mysore Kingdom and the arrival of the British.

In this era, most of the land becomes cultivated and there is surplus wealth generated for Vellalars. The famous people of this age like Cheran, Kari, etc.., This leads to seperate castes of artisans to emerge. The excavations dating to the Sangam period show great works of art like coins, anklets and other objects of household and luxury necessities emerge. Kongunadu perhaps has yielded the most in metal and embedding industry than any other region of earth at that time. It was the only exclusive source of gold and quality iron to the whole world. The famous sites are:

Kodumanal (world's only gold jewellery embedding centre of those days),
Kundadam (metal works),
Karur (Chera Vanji) (coin mints, anklets, Greco-Roman trade posts, etc..,),
Salem: (first steel workshops whose products were found in the Egyptian pyramids),
lack of necessary exploration stalls efforts to find many other places.
(I am myself taking efforts on my own expenditure and time to explore these fields).

Cheras (their descendents are the Cheran kootam of today) ruled through various feudatories like Kari (another kootam), Pari, Kumanan, Began, Erumai (another kootam), Killi and Gangan (of the Kannan kootam).

The Adiyans (Cheran  kootam) or the Sathiyaputras mentioned in Asokan inscriptions alongwith the Oris of Rasipuram (Kollimalai - Vizhiyan kootam) were the major rivals of the Cheras for predominance in this region.

Most of the Kongu Vellalar kootams have Sangam period names, named after a famous Sangam cheiftain, king or a dynasty.

Chera country, wrongly thought at first to be Kerala is ascertained to be Kongu with their capital at Karur Vanji. The Cheras extended thier power to the west coast and then moved their capital permanently there. The Velir or Vellala chieftains of the age did not have absolute powers as also the king. Were just nominal heads who oversaw local administration. The decline of the Cheras resulted in the rise of the Gangas also belonging to the Vellala caste of the Kannuva (Sans: Kanna+ va) gotram.

Thus 'kadayezhu vallalkal'or the last seven benevalent rulers hail from this age. References to the community have been found in the Purananooru of the Sangam age, '' koduval kongar'' and '' karungaik kongar '' ,meaning kongars with battle sickles, kongars with their physical feature of massive arms respectively) and Silappadhikaram ''kongilam kosar'' and '' kudagak kongar'',meaning kongars of the kosar clan of the kosala region and kongars of the kudagu region respectively.

The Gangas:

The rise of the Gangas can be said as the socio-political cementing of the Vellala cheifs of the Gangakulam as the sole lords of the Ganga (Kongu) country. The name Ganga is the original of "Konga". Chera and Ganga are one and the same dynasties
There are various themes of origin of the caste. The common undercurrent in all of them is, that the original name of the caste is Gangakulam (Tam: கங்காகுலம்) which is descended from the king Gangadatta (Sans., meaning one given by the Ganga) (Tam: கங்கதத்தன்) (the name Kongu Vellala Gounder is a relatively new, post-independence classification necessiated nomenclature).

Origin of the Vellalas of the Ganga clan:

The Velalapuranam and Kambar's Mangalavazthu:

The Velalapuranam, a 19th century construction, is not completely reliable due to the ideological implications of the age and the writer. Yet it maintains the original story of the man who originated from the river Ganga called here as Marapalan who started the Gangakulam.
The original, Marapala Choolamani maintains the real story.
This is a construction based probably on Kambar's Mangalavazhthu ( மங்கல வாழ்த்து) which is eventoday sung during one of the Gounder marriage rites. Kambar himself describes the various rites associated with the Gounder marriage. One is the Kaikorvai (கங்கா குலம் விளங்க கம்பர் சொன்ன...) in which he blesse the Gangakulam couple.

These Vellalas are descendant from the ancient Kshatiriya Suriyavamsam (Solar dynasty) through the Gangakulam (preserved in names like Suriya Kangeyan and titles having Kangeyan).

The Ganga copper plates and inscriptions (ex: Korni and Komaralingam plates) have maintained that the kings of the Gangas always called themselves Kongunis (Sans: of the Kongu). For example Kongunivarma Madhavarayan is the first mentioned ruler who establishes his capital at Kangeyam (Sans: Gangeyam or the seat of the Gangas). Durvinita calls himself as not Gangeya but Durvinita Konguni in his Kannada treatise Kiratararjuniya. Infact, the language spoken by the Gounders itself is called Gangee Tamizh, a language which is very close to original non-sanskritised Kannada. Wilkins, a British historiographer writes an account immediately before the conquering of Mysore (Dheeran Chinnamalai):

"In the southern part of Mysore the Tamil language is at this day named the Gangee from being best known to them as the language of the people of Kankayam". (Wilks, Mysore, p. 4, F, N.2)

Gounder is the name of the headman in a system of decentralised panchayat administration used with various regional variations by distinct castes groups. The root word is derived from Gavunda (கவுண்ட). This system of village administration gained political approval during the rule of the indegenous Ganga dynasty. The posts of the village headmen or the county headman (Ur Gavundar and Nattu Gavundar respectively) were usually assumed by the warrior-agrarian Vellalar clans of the Kongu Nadu region belonging to the ruling house Gangakulam itself. In the earlier similair Velan, Kizhan system during the Sangam period

The Gangas are said to have originated in Ayodhya, belonging to the same Suriyavamsa, Ikshvakukulam as Raman but of the Gangakulam as Ramar belongs to the Raghukulam.
by Dr. Harihar Kanungo:

Gangavamsa has spread all over India and the historians are completely silent about it. The kings of the Ganga dynasty had got their pedigree inscribed by their brahmin eulogists as well as the courtiers. In this regard, Dr. S.N. Rajaguru has given the following opinion:“Different royal dynasties, while narrating their genealogy, were eager to identity themselveswith the famous solar or lunar dynasties of the Puranas”. Dr. H. K. Mahatab and other historians have given similar opinions and have said that for this reason the genealogy available from these inscriptions do not tally with the historical facts. For all these reasons, we have to trace out the common men of the Ganga dynasty or Ganga community spread all over India and try to know their ancestry in order to unravel the mystery surrounding the origin of the Ganga dynasty. It can be asserted that the historical Ganga dynasty has evolved from among the common men of the Ganga dynasty or Ganga community. Hence this writer has made an humble attempt to discuss the family history of Ganga dynasty or Ganga community, while trying to establish the origin of the Ganga dynasty. A brief account of the Ganga dynasty available from the inscriptions engraved by the royal dynasties of Ganga community may be discussed. It is known from the inscription of Jainaguru Simhanandi, compiled by B. Lewis Rice that the forefathers of Ganga dynasty coming from Ayodhyapur under the leadership of Vishnugupta had initially settled at Ahichhatra located in the basin of the rivers Ganga and Yamuna. Later on they proceeded to Southern India in quest of new territory. Being advised by Jainaguru Simhanandi, Vishnugupta along with others came to Karnataka and established a new kingdom. According to this inscription the Ganga dynasties of Karnataka and Kalinga had come from Northern India. In the opinion of Dr. N. K. Sahu, both the western and eastern Ganga dynasty belong to one and the same dynasty and they came from North India in 5th century A.D. and established new kingdoms in Kalinga and Karnataka respectively. We cite here the views of B.Lewis. Rice on the above mentioned inscription of Jainaguru Simhanandi: “The origin of the Gangas is derived from Iksvaku and trace back to Ayodhyapura. Under Visnugupta the seat of government was moved to Ahichhatra, which, it is hinted, as Vijayapura. With the arrival of Dadiga and Madhava in the South, at Ganga-perur and the establishment of the Gangavadi kingdom in Mysore aided by Simhanandi, we seem to come to historical events.
It is known from the Vizagapattanam & Korni copperplate inscriptions 16 of Chodaganga Deva that by 5th century A.D., eighty kings of the Ganga dynasty had ruled over Gangavadi (Kongunadu) of Kuvalalapuram (Kolar). If one king had ruled at least for a period of twenty years, then these eighty kings would have ruled for about 1600 years. If we consider from this angle the Ganga dynasty had appeared 1600 years before 5th century A.D., which means their origin dates back to 11th century B.C. In this context we may mention that historians have agreed that the Mahabharata war was fought in 9th century B.C. This means the Ganga dynasty had appeared and achieved renown much before the events described in the epic Mahabharata. It has been noted above that Sevananda Bharati has established ancient Tamralipta or Modern Tamluk as the primary abode of the Ganga dynasty.
It is clear from the facts stated in the Madalapanji and Korni copperplate inscription of Chodaganga Dev that the Gangas are the descendants of a king or an individual named Gangeya who belonged to the solar dynasty. While claiming his descent from some Gangeya in his Korni copperplate inscription, he has bidentified both the ancestors and descendants of Gangeya. But all these have been rejected by historians. However, Dr. Rajaguru, basing on the facts stated by Chodaganga Dev, has accepted Gangeya and the Gangas as belonging to solar dynasty.

Another website
says, The Ganga dynasty came into existence in 2nd century AD after the name of its founder Gangeya or Gangadutt. Jain Acharya Simhanandi inspired his two disciples Daddigh and Madhav to establish their rule, which they did by constituting the territory of Gangawadi with Kolar as their capital. But actually Madhav Kongunivarma I was the first crowned king of this dynasty, who ruled for a long period during 189-250 AD Jainism was the national religion during his rule. King Durvinita Konguni of this dynasty was the disciple of famous grammarian Acharya Devanandi Pujyapad. Marasingh got victory over several powerful rulers and ruled gloriously. During his last days he became an ascetic. He died with Sallekhana in 974 AD at Bankapur in the feet of his Jain preceptor Ajitsena. The Ganga rulers built several Jain temples and established Jain institutions. (including five at Vijayamangalam, Jinapuram (Seenapuram), Vellode, Poondurai and Perundurai all in Erode dist.)
Punnata region:
COIMBATORE, the headquarter of the district which goes by its name in the State of Madras, is well-known to-day as the "Manchester of South India." There is perhaps not another place in the whole of this region to equal it not only in the numerous spinning and weaving mills it possesses but also in the general standard of wealth, health civilisation and culture. But few are interested in studying the history of this district and particularly the development of culture in this area. Of the era preceding the period of British occupation of the district, which began in 1799, particularly little or nothing is known.
In this paper I propose to make an enquiry into a subject which forms part of a larger whole, viz., the cultural development of the Coimbatore region in early times and the particular subject for enquiry here is an estimate of the Jain contribution to this quota. So many vestiges of Jainism are to be found in this district that there is no doubt about the great influence this religion must have exerted over the people of this region in early times. That it must have been much more than any one would suspect is certain. Names of places like seenapuram clearly remained one of the early jain influent over the region; while old jain shrines found in places like. Vijayamangalam, Tirumurthimalai and Karur bear an equally strong evidence to the same. A figure of the Jain Thrithankara is found in Tirumurthimalai; and a number of Jain beds are found to this day in Arunattarmalai in Karur Taluk while in Arasannamalai near Vijayamangalam the Neminatha temple has been now converted into a Vinayaka temple. Not only this. The district of Coimbatore in early times seems to have been the home of several Jain scholars, not the least of whom was the great Bavanandi, the author of the celebrated Tamil grammar, Nannul, who seems to have lived in the region of Vijayamangalam in Erode Taluk.
It is impossible for us to explain these vestiges unless we postulate a period of Jain glory in the district at some time during its sojourn in South India. The Kongadesarajakkal, a XVII century Tamil Mss., which has been recently edited by Mr. C. M. Ramachandran Chettiar, Advocate, Coimbatore, (Madras Govt, Oriental Series, VI, 1950) brings to light a set of seven rulers called Rattas (Rashtrakutas?) in this region during the period between 250 A.D. and 400 A.D. Many if not all of them are represented in this work as professors and strong supporters of Jainism. (Ibid., pp. 1-2). In the reign of the fourth ruler, Govindaraya, a grant to the jain Arishtanna is mentioned and in that of the sixth ruler, Kannaradeva, the names of three great Jain theologians, of whom one Naganandi is mentioned by name, are referred to. (Ibid)
The history of the origin of the Ganga dynasty of Mysore indicates even more clearly how deep-rooted was janism in the district of Coimbatore in early times. It would appear that in the closing years of the IV century A.D., King Padmanabha of the Gangas had to send his two sons, Dadiga and Madhava to the south by way of preparing himself to meet his enemy, King Mahipala of Ujjain. (Rice; Mysore and Coorg; p. 31). The rest of the narration as found in Rice's words is as follows:
"When they arrived at Perur, which is still distinguished from other Perurs as Ganga-Perur (in Cuddapah district), they met there the Jain Achariya Simhanandi. He was interested in the story of these Ganga princes and taking them by the hand, gave them instruction and training and eventually procured for them a kingdom."(Rice: Op., cit., loc., cit).
Many Ganga records like the Udayendiram plates of Prithvipati II, the Kudlur grant of Marasimha and the Santara inscription on the Huncha stone* bear clear evidence to the fact that Simhanandi gave them a kingdom and that he was a reputed Jain teacher. The last mentioned record indeed refers to him as "the archariya who made the Ganga kingdom.":
"Ganga-rajyaman madida Simhanandy acharyya."(EC., VIII, Nr. 35)
Indrabhuti in his Samayabhushana names him as a great poet to be kept on par with Elacharya and Pujyapada. (IA., XII, 20). Still, no better description can be given of Simhanandi than what is found in the Jaina record near the Siddhesvara temple at Kallurgudda in Shimoga Taluk:
"The Vijaya or victory to the farthest shore of learning, the full moon to the ocean of the Jaina congregation, possessed of patience and all the ten excellent qualities, his good life, a secure wealth, rejoicing in the modest, his fame extending to the four oceans, keeping at a distance from the evil, a sun in the sky of the Kranurgana, devoted to the performance of the twelve kinds of penance, promoter of the Ganga kingdom-Sri Simhanandiacharyya."(EC., VII, Sh. 4)
On the other hand we owe to the evidence of inscriptional records like those of the Parsvanathi Basti at Sravana Belgola and others to be seen at Kallurgudda and Purale in Shimoga Taluk that Madhava definitely came under the influence of Simhanandi, who initiated him into jain doctrines and conferred on him a kingdom on condition that he always took care to uphold that Faith throughout its confines. (Ibid, also 64). The latter tow give a detailed account of this origin of the Ganga Kingdom, which deserves to be quoted at least in part, as it gives one an idea of the depth of Jain influence that ruled over the region where the Ganga kingdom was founded:
"On Madhava impressing him with his extraordinary energy... Simhanandi made a coronet of the petals of the Karnikara flowers bound it on Madhava's head, gave them (the two brothers) the dominion of all the earth, presented them with a flag made from his peacock fan and furnished them with attendants, elephants and horses. Along with these he gave them also the following advice: 'If you fail in what you have promised, if you do not approve the Jina sasana; if you seize the wives of others; if you indulge in wine and flesh; if you form relationship with the low; if you give not your wealth to the needy; if you flee from the field or battle-your race will go to ruin.
The question that has to be decided here is the identification of Perur mentioned in ganga records. Taken in conjusction with the history of the Rattas, the Kongadesarajakkal furnishes proof that it was on their fall that the Gangas rose to power and began ruling from Skandapura in Kongudesa (which is the ancient name for the territory comprising the modern disteicts of Coimbatore and Salem). The Chronicle would even inform us that the last Ratta ruler changed his religion from Jainism to Saivism and that was the cause of his downfall. Further, all the early activities of Konganivarman-as the first historical ruler of the Ganga house becomes known in all the records of this dynasty-are confined to this Kongudesa. (Kongadesarajakkal (Or Mss. Edn.) pp. 2-3). It is true that we lack definite epigraphic evidence in support of this, which we have mainly only from the Tamil chronicle above referred to. But it must be remembered that in the first place we have only a few records for the Ganga period here referred to; and even the few references that we have to the early grants of the Gangas seem to refer only to places in Coimbatore district. Such are places like "Kudluru" to the west of the Tatla and east of "Marukarevisaya", in which the names of Kudluru and Marukarevisaya are easily identifiable with the present Gudalur and Madukari in this area. (Kudaluru grant of Madhavavarman; MAR., 1930).
The conclusion naturally follows that Per here referred to as the spot on which Madhava was initiated into Jainism and conferred a kingdom on condition that he upheld it through all its confines must be the Perur within 3 miles from Coimbatore. We have numerous evidences to show that at the time referred to and for long afterwards this Perur was indeed an important place. The place referred to by this name cannot be the Perur in Cuddapah district, as Rice surmises, where no Jain remains are to be found. The tratdition is that Dadiga and Madhava were sent to the south of Mysore, as already indicated. Further, the very title assumed by the first ruler as Madhava Konganivarman seems to give an unmistakable proof of this conclusion, since as the Kongadesarajakkal aptly remarks:
As wealth, the Kongu country and great munificence were possessed by him he was styled srimalt Konganivarman Dharmamahadiraja. (Kongadesarajakkal (Taylor's trans.); MJLS., XIV)
While the mention of Simhanandi as a "person of the southern country' in the inscription at Parsvanatha Basti at Sravana Belgola already referred to, seems to set the seal upon this conclusion.
It is an agreed fact that the canarese country of which modern Mysore forms the crown and centre furnished a home for the religion of Mahavira in the days when it was not very much liked by his own countrymen of the north. The Brihatkatha of Harisena clearly refers to the migration of the Bhadrabahu mission from Mysore to Punnata in the years following the dealth of Chandragupta Maurya. (Rice; Mysore Inscriptions, p. 146; IA., XVII 366). Historians are not yet agreed as to what country is meant by the name, 'Punnata.' All available evidences seem to point to the region of S. Coorg and N. Coimbatore district as the region designated as 'Punnata' by Harisena, so that it would appear that a portion at least of the modern district of Coimbatore was the central hearth of Jainism even before the beginning of the Christian era.
Even the name 'Punnata' and be explainted. It seems to be just a corruption of the name, 'Pounnadu' the land of gold. That there was much gold to be had from the region of Coorg and Kongu is unexceptionalble. While the Mysore gold minies bear evidence to this in some indirect way, the XVII century Tamil work, Maduraikalambakam speaks of the "gold that is found in Kondu" (Konguraippon), thus bearing a direct testimony to the Kongu wealth of gold. (The term Ponnadu seems to have been analogous to the name of the Cola country watered by the cauvery, Viz., the 'Punalnadu'.
Thus we are able to posit that the region of modern Coimbatore was a central hearth of Jainism in the south at least three conturies before the Christian era and that it continued to be so for a long time afterwards certainly through-our the period of the Ganga rule. An inscription of the XII century which referring to the Hoysala conquest of Kongu under Vishnuvardhana (1120 AD), Speaks of his general in that region, Gangarajah of great fame as" :a devout Jain. "(See Sastri; Colas, II, i). We need not try to trace the later history of Jainism in Kongu. Probably it came on a period of steady decline from that date onwards. But what has been so far said is enough to explain the numerous Jain vestiges in this region, to be seen to this day.

The Chera kings are of Gounder origin as there is a kootam called Cheran kootam which lives near the seat of the Cheras, Karur.Nagasamy, ASI ex-chairman Tamilnadu writes about the Karur Cheras and Karur as Vanji, the capital of Cheras. He also details of Muziris as modern day [[Musiri]]. The decline of the Cheras brought in the Kannuva (Kannan)kootam as Ganga dynasty.[]. see also Cheras were not Keralites[]
The first Ganga king Kongunivarma mahadirayan crowned himself at Vijayaskandapuram (later called Gangeyam-Kangayam after the Gangas) (ref:Kongudesa rajakkal). The Ganga genealogy and chronology have presented many problems to the historians. The first ruler of the dynasty was Konganivarma Madhava (C.350-370 A. D) who worked to establish his power at the expense of the Banas and by expanding in Kongudesa or the Salem region. He thought it wise to be friendly with the Pallavas, a policy which was followed by the early Ganga rulers. He was succeeded by his nephew Madhava II or Kiriya Madhava (C.370-390 A. D.) who was the son of Dadiga who moved to Dalavanapura. His successor Harivarma (C.390-410 A. D.) is said to have been installed on the throne by the Pallava Simhavarma. During this period, two branches of the Ganga dynasty were established at Paruvi and Kaivara.
Harivarma's son Vishnugopa (C.410-430 A. D.) had a quiet, uneventful reign, and was succeeded by Tadangala Madhava (C.430-466 A. D.). He is said to have been anointed by the Pallava king Skandavarma. His friendly relations with the Pallavas did not prevent him from normalising his relations with the Kadambas. In fact, he married the daughter of [[Kakusthavarma]]. He strengthened the Pallava rule by incorporating the Paruvi and the Kaivara branches into the main line. His son and successor was Avinita (C.466-495 A. D.) who consolidated the Ganga position by marrying the daughter of the Raja of Punnata. He remained friendly with the Pallavas, but was reputed to be very stern in his dealings with the enemies.
DURVINITA (C.495-535 A. D.)Avinita's son and successor, Durvinita, was one of the most remarkable rulers of the Ganga family. His succession was a disputed one, as he had to overcome the challenge of his younger step-brother who seemed to have secured the assistance of the Pallavas and the Kadambas. The Nallala grant refers to this war of succession; so does the Kadagattur grant which gives a hint that his younger brother was supported by the Pallava King and that the " Goddess of sovereignty came to the rescue of Durvinita because of his excellent display of valour and determination".
The Pallava interference in the Ganga affairs resulted in a shift in the dynastic relations which hitherto had been cordial. Durvinita could not remain friendly with the Pallavas who had created problems for him by supporting his step-brother. The Ganga monarch swore vengeance on the Pallavas who were routed in the battle of Anderi in his fifth regal year. The Pallavas, however, continued their hostilities and it is likely that they secured the assistance of the Kadambas in their attempt to tame Durvinita. In the protracted war that ensued, several pitched encounters were fought, and the Gummareddipura record informs us that Durvinita overcame his enemies at Alattur, Porulare and Pernagra. It is possible that these victories enabled him to extend his power over Kongudesa and Tondaimandalam.
Durvinita was able to cement his friendship with the newly emerging Chalukya power. He gave his daughter to Chalukya Vijayaditya; and when his son-in-law became a victim of the Pallava aggression, Durvinita championed the Chalukyas and installed his grandson Jayasimha on the Badami throne. The timely help of the Ganga monarch did much to save the Chalukyas, and on this sure foundation was built a tradition of a durable friendship between the two ruling families.
The Gummareddipura and the Uttanur plates describe Durvinita as the Lord of Punnata. In fact, his mother was Jyeshtadevi, the daughter of Skandavarma of Punnata. It is possible that there were no male heirs to the Punnata throne and naturally the sovereignty of that Kingdom devolved upon Durvinita.
The religious outlook of Durvinita was marked by tolerance. Though he was a worshipper of Vishnu and a performer of Vedic sacrifices like Hiranyagarbha, he was a pupil of the Jaina preceptor Pujyapada. His court was adorned by many Jaina scholars. His religious catholicity is reflected in the generous patronage he extended to all religious sects.
Himself an eminent scholar, Durvinita evinced keen interest in promoting literary cultivation. The renowned Sanskrit poet Bharavi is said to have visited the Ganga court during this period. Durvinita is supposed to have written a commentary on the fifteenth canto of Bharavi's Kiratarjuniya. He also translated into Sanskrit the Vaddakatha or Brihatkatha of Gunadya, which was originally written in the Paisachi language (translated by his vassal Konguvelir to Tamil). He is also credited with the authorship of 'Sabdavatara', a work on grammar. His Nallala grant hails him as an expert in the composition of various forms of poetry, stories and dramas. In fact, Nripatunga's Kavirajamarga hails him as one of the early writers in Kannada.
The many-sided accomplishments of Durvinita are recorded on the Nallala grant. He is compared to Kautilya in expounding the science of polity; to Narada, Tumburu or Bharatadeva in his knowledge of music and dance; to Charaka and Dhanvantri in the knowledge of medicine or to Parasurama in the use of arms. He is referred to as endowed with three constituents of royal power, namely, Prabhusakti (imperial power), Mantrasakti (the power of discretion) and Utsahasakti (the power of active will). His political achievements, military victories, diplomatic skill and many sterling qualities of head and heart prove that his claims were justified. Durvinita was indeed a great ruler of the Ganga family.
Some Gangakula Vellalas also migrated to Eezham see [[Vellalar (Sri Lankan)]]

The Gangas also were great patrons of Tamil.

Western Ganga administration and Hoysala invasion :

The Gavundas who appear most often in inscriptions were the backbone of medieval polity of the southern Karnataka and western Tamilnadu region. As landlords and local elite, the state utilized their services to collect taxes, maintain records of landownership, bear witness to grants and transactions and even raise militia when required. Owing strong personal allegiance to the king, they were vested with certain rights over villages. It appears the gavundas operated as corporations in the Kaveri valley but as individuals in the northern and eastern domains of the Gangas. They had rights to make grants that may have been occasionally exempt of local taxes. There were two types of Gavundas; the Ur-Gavundas who were lower in status and wielded control at the village level and the Nadu-gavunda who oversaw the Nadu and were directly appointed by the king.

During suceeding Hoysala empire, the system got a little modified. There were two types of landlords (Gavundas); Gavunda of people (praja Gavunda) was lower in status than the wealthy lord of gavundas (prabhu gavunda). Thus we can trace the presence of two distinct varieties of Gounders within the same marrige group. The Prabhu Gavundas of the Hoysala period are usually called the Ejamanans (Sans: Yajamana or the one who supports Yajnyas). The praja gavundans are the normal agriculturist landlords. The coming of the Hoysalas meant the loss of central power for the Gounders permanently.

Religion and communal structure of the Gounders:

The Gounders are followers of the traditional form of Saiva Siddhanta Hinduism. In earlier times a sizeable population followed seems to have followed Jainism
(temples are found even today at Vijayamangalam, Jinapuram, Vellode, Perundurai, Palani, Aivarmalai and Poondurai )and later reconverted by the Siddhar traditions (most of the Siddhars lived in Kongunadu). The Gounders follow the system of Gotram, popularly called Kootam in which persons from the same Kootam do not marry one another as they are considered to have descended from the same ancestor. Each Kootam has its own Kulaguru (or popularly saamiar- a brahmin- for example, the kulaguru of melkarai poonthurai nadu kootams is Pasur Akilanda Dikshitar), who is traditionally respected. (This fact is cleverly skipped by Dravidian historians). Every Kootam also has one or more Kuladeivams or a Clan Deities. Some of the Kootams are:

Adhitreya Kumban
Andhuvan Ariyan(noble)
Bharatan (descendants of Bharata)
Dananjayan (descendants of Arjuna)
Muzhlukkadhan (same as porulthantha)
Paandian (Pandya dynasty)
Panangadai (Elumathur Kadais and Maruthurai Kadais-distinct from Kadais, note:Salem and Namakkal dist Kadais don't marry into this kootam,traditionally vegetarian)
Porulthantha or Perizhanthan(same as mulukadhan)
Sathuvaraayan (meaning:good rulers)
Sanagan (Janakar's descendants)
Sooriyan (Suriyavamsam)
Viradhan (descendants of Viratan of Mahabharata)
This list is not exhaustive.

Royal houses and kootams (gothras):

Kaalingarayar-Kings of Kalinga Ganga dynasty (Eastern Ganga dynasty)
Vaanavarayar-Bana dynasty
Pallavarayar-Pallava dynasty
Palayakottai Mandradiyar-chieftain
Cheran kootam-Chera dynasty
Pandya kootam-Pandya dynasty
Kannan(Kannuvan)-original Ganga rulers
Kadai-Kaadava dynasty
Elumathur kadai - Kangayars

Language of Gounders:

The language of the Gounders is the popular Coimbatore Bhashai or Kongu Tamil. It must have been a distinct language as it also shows relations with Eela Tamil, Prakrit-Aprabramsa and Kannada. It was earlier called Kangee or Gangee (கங்கி, the language of the Gangas). Mysore, Col. Wilks, records in his "History of Mysore":
"In the southern part of Mysore the Tamil language is at this day named the Gangee from being best known to them as the language of the people of Kankayam". (Wilks, Mysore, p. 4, F, N.2) Later mainstream Tamil assimilated the language yet preserving idiolectical differences and markers.

Examples of variance:

Tamil/Gangee(கங்கி or today:Kongu Tamil)
Appa/Anna(pronounced like last part in Pongiy'''ana'''), aiyya (nasalised anna)
Amma/Ayi,Aya orAyi+yal),Atha
Chitti/Chinnayi(also Chinni),chinnaya,Chinatha
Kollu Thatha/Pattan
Kollu Patti/Patti
Ellu Pattan/Muppattan
Ellu patti/Muppatti
brother-in-law is called Machandar by women

The Modern caste:

The Gounder caste is a progressive caste which has excellent personae in various fields. The Coimbatore region flourishes mainly due to their innovation and hardwork in Agriculture, textiles (Salem, Coimbatore, Erode, Tirupur and Karur), Education (Namakkal, Coimbatore, Salem), Poultry Namakkal), Automobiles (Namakkal, Salem), Bus body building (Karur), Milk (Erode Aavin), Edible Oils (Erode), Turmeric (Erode has the largest market in South India) and Marketing of Cloths (Erode 24 hours market in every week) .Kongunadu has the highest urban proportion and contributes 2/3rd of Tamilnadu's income. Gounders always formed part of all ministeries with strategic portfolios earlier and now they have been relegatged to third rate minstries and now are at a distance from "real" political power! When Rajaji was the Cm, he is said to have told people that he has three Gounder ministers just because Gounders are honest and committed. The population of Gounders is rapidly falling due to birth control and emigration of youth is seen as a possible source by which the caste is bound to disappear in the near future.

Sekkizhar - minister of Kulottunga who compiled 'Periyapuranam', a treatise on Saivite saints.(There is a graphic description of his life and how he came to write this magnum opus is narrated in a 14th cent Tamil work Thiruttoṇḍar-purāṇa-varalāru. Sekkiḻār who belongs to an agriculturist family of Veḷḷaḷar, rose to be the Chief-minister to the Choḻa emperor Kulottuṅga II. The work ascribed to Umāpati Śivam of 14th cent gives two significant titles of Sekkiḻār. He is called "Gaṅgā-kula-tilaka" (verse -59) and "Bhāgīrati-kula-Tilaka")

Thiruvennai Nallur Sadayappa Vallal (patron of Kambar) referred as Pannai kulathu Kongar kon in Ramavatharam (Kamba Ramayanam)(ref:''pannai vennai sadaya'' kambaramayanam verse 636 line 7)


Thiruvennai Nallur Sadayappa Vallal(திருவெண்ணை நல்லூர் சடயப்ப வள்ளல்) - a Pannai kula cheiftain. Kamban wrote his epic Kamba Ramayanam with his patronage. As a mark of respect for his patron, Kamban refers his name once in every 1000 verses.

Sollerulavan Sellamuthu- The great orator and founder of Farmers Associations.
Diwan Bahadur Agathur Muthuramaswami Kalingaroyar

Sekkizhar - minister of Kulottunga who compiled 'Periyapuranam', a treatise on Saivite saints.(There is a graphic description of his life and how he came to write this magnum opus is narrated in a 14th cent Tamil work Thiruttoṇḍar-purāṇa-varalāru. Sekkiḻār who belongs to an agriculturist family of Veḷḷaḷar, rose to be the Chief-minister to the Choḻa emperor Kulottuṅga II. The work ascribed to Umāpati Śivam of 14th cent gives two significant titles of Sekkiḻār. He is called "Gaṅgā-kula-tilaka" (verse -59) and "Bhāgīrati-kula-Tilaka")
Vakkapakai mannan Varapathiyatkondan (patron of Villiputhoorar)(ref: kongar kula vatrapathiyatkondan - Villibharatham- Sirappurpayiram verse 18 line 2 and various other references)
Retrieved from ""
There are certain small sub groups who also follow the same customs and are also called by the same name among the Gounders which are getting amalgamated nowadays into the mainstream, some of the differences are (mentioned number two group is the mainstream),
Nattu Gounders-Oor Gounders = Gounders who were rulers of Nadus see [[Western Ganga administration]] where Gounder population is thin and normal oor Gounders.
Narambukatti Gounders (Vadakarai vellalars) -Senthalai Gounders = of north and south of river Bhavani.
Padathalai Gounders - Senthalai Gounders = the people who joined and abstained Tippu sultan's army respectively) (found mostly in the Vijayamangalam belt).
Irumudi Gounders - Vellala Gounders = Gounders who fell under two rulers and proper Kongu respectively.

Castes like the Padayachi "Gounders" and Kurumba 'Gounders" have assumed the title for the sake of respect though they are not referred as Gounders. There is enough caution among the Gounders regarding this.

Peculiar customs:

Various peculiar customs in the caste both known and unknown are observed. These have modified in the last two generations and some may even feel new to these. There are various reasons for these peculiarities. Some are,

1.Ancient Tamil vestiges (language, feeding the pulavars with milk and fruit mash, worship of demi gods, etc..,).
2.Samana (Jaina) vestiges (eating before dark, white saree (vella seelai) for widows, preference for white dress, cooking meat outside the house, etc..,).
3.Kshatiriya vestiges (Gotra system, Annamar vazhipadu (hunter-warrior conflict), Kannimar vazhipadu (sapta kanyas), udankattaiyeral (sati), kuladeivam,kulaguru, benovalence,marriage customs,holding the marriage ceremony in the bride's house, giving handicapped children to Modavandis thereby eliminating weak genes, etc..,).

Marriage customs:

Gounders marry outside their Kootam(Gotram) and are renown for their elaborate threeday-marriage extravagenzas. Only some kootams give and take very high dowries, whereas today that is fading away. Their marriage rituals follow the Kshatriya pattern (where the bridegroom goes to the bride's house) and therefore necessarily involve service castes participation.
Another known fact about gounders is that they are highly conservative and do not marry anyone out of their caste and if done so they exclude that person from their families. Gounders are people who value their caste and society more than family ties. The practice of cross cousin marriages like the other south and central Indian people is also followed though lesser in these days.

Kongu Vellalar Marriage:
*Arumaikaarar *Arumaikaari *Anthanar *Naavidhan (Barber) *Vannaan (Washer man) *Potter (Vetkovar) *Paraiyars (Men from paraiya caste) *Kammaalar *Pandaaram *Maadhaari (shoemaker) *Porutham paarthal (Examination of the agreement of horoscopes) *Sagunam paarthal (Being guided by omens) *Mutual visit to the houses of bride and bridegroom *Betrothal (Nichayadhaartham or nichaya thaamboolam) *Invitation for marriage *Kongu Vellalar Marriage
*Kongu Vellalar Marriage The Vellalar were of great assistance to the king by being in various positions and ranks in the army. They also got the title 'Kamindan' from the king for their meritorious service and loyalty. Later the title got modified as ‘Gounden'. To streamline the living together of the boy and the girl, certain regulations and procedures were created. The procedures and habits as per certain regulations later became ‘rites'. The performance of all the rites collectively in a sequence is called marriage.
*Kongu Vellala Gounders-Ceremonial Rites in Marriages The various rites being performed nowadays in the marriage ceremony of Kongu Vellalar community are unique in nature. Each and every rite is performed for some specific reason. The original rites performed centuries ago in Kongu Vellalar marriage ceremony which resembled ‘Sanagam’ age rites have undergone minor changes and modifications from technology and consequent changes in customs, habits and facilities. Some rites have ceased to exist because of their having become obsolete.
The rites which are being performed nowadays in Kongu Vellalar marriage ceremony reflect the superior character, rich culture and high tradition of Kongu Vellalar community.
*Who perform rites? All the ceremonial rites relating to Kongu Vellalar marriage are performed by ‘arumaikaarar’ ,arumaikaari, naavidhan (barbar), washer man (vannaan) and such others who are closely associated with the occupation of Kongu Vellala Gounders.
*Arumaikaarar: An ‘arumaikaarar’, who is a respected elderly member of the community, is the prime person for performing the marriage rites of Kongu Vellalar. The arumaikaarar is also used to be called ‘arumaiperiyavar’, 'seerkaarar’ and ‘pudavaikaarar’. The aruamikaarar should have wife and child/children.
On the specified day, the three arumaikaarars, after planting the ‘Muhurthakaal’, will go to an anthill of white ants, offer prayer, gather sacred earth in three baskets and bring the same to the wedding place
*Arumaikaari: A women gets the name arumaikaari after the performance of certain rites on her by an arumaikaarar at the time when her son or daughter has attained age for marriage. The rite relating to this is called ‘Ezhudhingam’, as mentioned by Thiru R. Venketeswaran in his research paper titled ‘Vennandhur Vattaara Kongu Vellalar Vaazhviyal’. The arumaikaari (the women who has undergone the process of ezhudhingam) along with the arumaikaarar will perform all the rites relating to women.
The rites being performed on men or women who wish to become arumaikaarar or arumaikaari respectively clearly point out that only those who are respected elders, who are well experienced and who are having spouse and child/children, are qualified to perform the rites of a marriage ceremony.
*Anthanan: The Anthanan or te Brahmin was the first to be consulted in the initiation of the ceremony according to the '''Mangala Vazhthu'''. Then during the Mangiliyam or the kodi(Thali) time, the Brahmin recited the appropriate slokams from the vedic texts.The '''Kulaguru''' (saamiyar) blesses the couple.
*Naavidhan (Barber): Next to arumaikaarar, the naavidhan (barbar) plays an important role in conducting the rites of the marriage ceremony of Kongu Vellalar. The naavidhan is called ‘Kudimagan’. The Kudimagan’s important works in the conduct of the marriage are to invite all relatives for the marriage, to perform each and every rite of the marriage ceremony along with the arumaikaarar, to recite the ‘mangala vaazhthu’ song and to announce and call the relatives concerned before performing each rite.
*Vannaan (Washer man):The marriage pandhal (a temporary shed with a roof made of plaited coconut leaves) will be decorated with colorful clothes on all sides including the top by the washer man. Cloths will be laid down on the path to enable the newly wedded couple to walk on the same when the couple comes out from the same when the couple comes the decorated marriage platform.
*Potter (Vetkovar): The vetkovar is one who makes earthen pots. The Sangam works praise the potter as a vessel-making king. The potter will make and supply earthen pots required for performing the marriage rites. There was an agreement between Kongu Vellalar and potters to the effect that the potters will receive paddy and money from the Kongu Vellalar in return for the post supplied, as mentioned in ‘Madurai Pattayam’ (grant inscribed on copper plate).
*Paraiyars (Men from paraiya caste): The paraiyars will beat the Kettle –like drums and make loud musical noise during the marriage of kongu Vellalar.
*Kammaalar: The ' Kammaalar` are artisans who work in wood. The kammaalar will make and supply all the agricultural instruments and tools required by the Kongu Vellalar. They will also make and supply things such as wooden plate, ladle, salt box, special box with five compartments used to keep spices for cooking, which are required for performing the rite `madaikalam vaithal` in the marriage ceremony.
*Pandaaram: The pandaarams used to perform poojai for village gods. The pandaarams are also very good in cooking and they undertake the work of cooking also in Kongu Vellalar marriages.
*Maadhaari (shoemaker): The maadhaari or sakkili people are also involved in Kongu Vellalar marriages. These people make new chappals for bridegroom as well as bride and give them for a consideration. Wearing of new chapples made and supplied by the maadhaari is also a rite in Konge Vellalar marriage ceremony.
*Porutham paarthal (Examination of the agreement of horoscopes) Tholkaappiyar says that there are ten aspects of agreement (porutham) to be looked in to between the boy and girl. They are birth, quality of family, strength, age personality, attachment, humility, compassion, knowledge and wealth.
*Sagunam paarthal (Being guided by omens) Apart from seeing the horoscope, there was also the practice of taking guidance from omens (sagunam paarthal) in temples of respective ‘kuladheivams’. Keeping flowers in front of god and watching the movement of the flower, listening to the voice and sound of lizard are some of omens, which are looked at before taking a decision on matrimonial matters. Only if the omen is good and positive, the green signal for the marriage will be given.
Mullai paattu’, a Sangam Tamil poem, says that aged women will worship the God with paddy and flowers, praying for permission to take the decision on marriage alliance and hoping that good things will happen in future by this deed.
*Mutual visit to the houses of bride and bridegroom After coming to a decision that the proposal for marriage is satisfactory and can be gone through, the bridegroom’s family members and close relatives will visit the house of the bride and see for themselves the state of affairs, the house, the land, quality of living, status and other such things and in the same manner, the bride’s family members and close relatives will visit the bridegroom’s house. Only after knowing and evaluating all these aspects and getting themselves satisfied with all relevant matters, will consent be given to the next stage called betrothal (nichayadhaartham).
*Betrothal (Nichayadhaartham or nichaya thaamboolam) After taking a decision that the marriage can be conducted, an auspicious day will be chosen and on that day, the bridegroom’s family along with relatives and friends will go to the bride’s house. The bride’s parents as well as bridegroom’s parents are called ‘Sambandhi’. A plate containing fruits, betel and areca nut will be kept on a tripod. Persons from bride’s side and the bridegroom’s side will sit opposite to each other, with the tripod kept in between them and start holding discussions. The bridegroom’s side will tell the bride’s side that they have come to request their consent for the marriage alliance and the bride’s side will reciprocate by giving their consent with pleasure. Then the two sides will exchange plates containing coconut and fruits. The girl will be called and given a plate containing new dresses and presents. After receiving the same, the bride will enter the dressing room and come out after wearing the new dress given by the bridegroom’s side. The bride will be asked to keep in her lap betel, areca nut, turmeric, lemon, etc. and pay regards and respect to the elders present on that occasion to grace the betrothal function. By mutual consent, the date and time and the venue of the marriage are fixed. Thereafter, the bride’s family hosts a feast called ‘parupanchotru virundhu’ (feast including rice and dhal) to mark the end of the betrothal event. In this context, it is to be pointed out that the bridegroom’s side will not take food in bride’s house unless and until the marriage is fixed and confirmed. This has been mentioned by Pulavar T.P.Chinnasami in his book ‘Thirumana Sadangugalil Panpaadu’.
*Invitation for marriage Nowadays marriage invitation cards are printed and mostly sent by post. Only close relatives and close friends are invited personally by handing over invitation cards. In those days, the kudimagan used to go to each and every house in person for extending the invitation for marriage. The kudimagan will also specify the number of invitees in each house for the marriage. Even if person from the bride’s family or bridegroom’s family invited personally, the invitees will not attend the marriage unless the kudimagan comes in person and extends the invitation. Such was the importance attached to the extends the invitation. Such was the importance attached to the kudimagan’s invitation in those days in Kongu Vellalar marriages.
*Rites before marriage As soon as the marriage is fixed, the relatives will voluntarily come forward to involve themselves in all the work relating to the marriage in bride’s house and bridegroom’s house. The relatives consider it an honour to go to the marriage house and do the works relating to the marriage. Work such as steaming paddy, cutting firewood, serving food to guests, erection of pandhal for the marriage is carried out only by relatives. All these actions and deeds show that in Kongu Vellalar community, the relatives are given due respect and that they render help voluntarily, bound by strong love and affection. The Kongu Vellalar marriage is an ancient one. It has unique qualities. The various rites in Kongu Vellalar marriages are conducted by an elderly person of the Kongu Vellalar community itself, called ‘Arumaikaarar’. Raising of sacrificial fire and chanting of vedic hymns do not find a place in the marriage ceremony of Kongu Vellalar. The marriage rites reveal the fine qualities and rich traditions of Kongu Vellalar community. Wide publicity is given for the celebration of temporary structure (pandhal), cutting firewood and the loud beating of musical instruments. The events and rites such as ‘pariyam’ idudhal, betrothal, kulam kodhudhal and muhurthakaal naattudhal serve as evidence for the marriage. The rite “Aarathi eduthal” (a plate containing water mixed with turmaric and lime waved before newly married couple), “Senjoru aindhadai suttrudhal” (waving rice balls before newly married couple), and ‘Arugumanam seidhal’ are performed with a view to eliminating the blight caused due to evil eyes. Fasting and ‘Kaappu Kattudhal’ are rites which mark the determination of the bride and the bridegroom to enter into a new life. Tying of thaali by the bridegroom around the neck of the bride and exchanging of garlands in the presence of all gathered for the marriage ceremony mark the completion of the wedding. The blessings for the couple through mangala vaazhthu song are also considered to be the blessings of the people present for the marriage ceremony. ‘Tharrai varthal’ and ‘Kaithalam pattrudhal’ are rites which point out the rights and responsibilities of the bride and the bridegroom. Events such as steaming of paddy (nel vega vaithal), Cutting firewood and erection of pandhal (temporary structure) indicate the closeness among relatives. The rite ‘thaayudan unnal’ (‘thaayudan unnal’ is a very good quality) adds glory to the women community. The rite ‘inai cheer’ is a rite which shows the admirable quality of protecting the rights of women. Coming closer of relatives (bride’s family and bridegroom’s family) is made known and exhibited by rites such as ‘Kai Korvai’, ’seer koodai’ procession and ‘pudhy kalandhunnal’. The rite ‘paadha poosai seithal ‘signifies the respect shown by the bride and the bridegroom for their parents. The rite ‘naattukal valhipaadu shows that any important event or activity is commenced only after paying regards and respect for community leaders and obtaining their blessings. When other communities have opened their gateway for Aryan and priestly rites, Kongu Vellalar community has not accepted the above rites for purpose of following. The main purpose of today’s marriage movement is that all the marriage rites should be performed only in Tamil. This is being followed fully in Kongu Vellalar marriages. In each and every marriage, it is natural that certain rites take place. Marriage with out rites means marriage without irrational and foolish rites. Most of the rites of Kongu Vellalar marriages resembles those in marriages of the Sangam age.
Rich culture, high tradition, customs and habits of Kongu Vellalar, who are the indigenous clan of Tamil Nadu, are revealed in the various marriage rites. The Kongu Vellalar is comparable to the best in the world. The Kongu Vellalar, who were the chief architects of agriculture, can feel very proud of their unique and ancient culture, known extraordinary hard work, hospitality, helping nature, harmonious living with nature as well as othercommunities, courage, respecting women, high standards of living, prosperity and support to deserving.
The Kongu Vellalar marriage can be said to resemble the ‘prajaapathyam’ type marriage. In Kongu Vellalar marriage, the bridegroom’s family goes to the bride’s house, propose the marriage and request the consent of the bride’s family for the alliance. After obtaining consent from the bride’s family, the marriage takes place.
*Kongu Vellalar Marriage Rites and Marriage Venue In the Past, kongu Vellalar marriages took place in bride’s house. In those days, it was the practice that only very close relatives were invited for the marriages. However, nowadays relatives, friends, neighbors and other known persons are being invited in large numbers for the marriages. For want of sufficient space and other needed facilities, the marriages are not held in the houses, but held in marriage halls which have come up in large numbers to suit the budget and requirements of all categories of people.
Marriage Season Dr Sasivalli, in her book ‘Thamizhar Thirumanam’ has stated as follows: Ancient Tamils considered spring (April-May) Season, day with moon and rogini and early morning time suitable for conducting the marriages. With passage of time, changes and modifications took place in season, day and time.
Kongu Vellalar do not conduct marriages in the months of Aadi and maargazhi. Generally, they do not choose even Chithirai for conducting the marriage. Marriages are held mostly in the months of Vaikaasi, Aani and Asvani taking into consideration the fact that the season will be good during these months and also jasmine flower of lovable fragrance which is required in large quantities for the marriage, will be available in plenty during this season. The marriages of Kongu Vellalar are celebrated for three consecutive days The First day event The first day event is called ‘Naal virundhu’. On this day, close relatives of the bride and bridegroom will host feast for the bride’s family and bridegroom’s family respectively. The Second day event On the second day, marriage arrangements will be done by brining together all relatives. Events such as erection of pandhal (temporary shed), cutting of ‘Muhurtha Kaal’, hairdressing of bridegroom by kudimagan, informing the marriage event to village community by drum beating, hosting of feast for the relatives in the bride’s family as well as bridegroom’s family, bridegroom leaving for the bride’s house will take place on the second day. The marriage event will take place in bride’s house. The Third day event The mukurtham will take place on third day. The bride and the bridegroom will be seated on the marriage platform on completion of appropriate rites. The thaali (mangala naan) will be tied by the bridegroom around the bride’s neck and mangala vaazhthu song will be recited.
The marriage events will come to a close with the serving of grand feast to all relatives, friends and neighbors. The marriage events will be performed by a respected elderly person of the community itself called arumaikaarar. This section explains the various events of the marriage ceremony. All the rites are performed only in the Tamil language.
*Kongu Vellalar Marriages in Tamil Literatures Kongu Vellalar had held high positions such as chieftains and army generals. Hence rites relating to government administration and war find their places in Kongu Vellalar marriages The events such as bridegroom riding a horse in olden days, giving gifts and presents including weapons are examples of the above. The main occupation of Kongu Vellalar was agriculture and they excelled in it by their hard work and dedicated efforts. Hence agriculture related rites such as boiling paddy and seer koodai formed part of the marriage rites of Kongu Vellalar.
*‘Mangala vaazhthu’ song The mangala vaazhthu song, which is, recited only in kongu Vellalar marriages. This song explains in detail and in sequence all the events related to a marriage from the beginning to the end. The song has been written in such a way that it describes the marriage events in a grand manner as if it is taking place in a king’s family. The Status, life, style, culture, and nature of society and relationship of Kongu Vellalar are very well brought out by the above song. The mangala Vaazhthu song is qualified to be spoken literature.

The art of marriage Kongu Vellalar strives their best to lead a successful and prosperous domestic life after marriage.

Politics in Kongunadu today:

Kongunadu has nearly 70 assembly constituencies out of the total 234. This region has been economically strong but politically vwry weak because disunity among the majority Gounders.Today Gounders who are estimated to be the single largest caste in Tamilnadu of about 70-80 lakhs are represented only in 23/65 assembly constituencies. This is radically opposite to the 30/30 and 4 important ministers in the Rajaji berth. (The only caste given 4 ministers by the great Rajaji , not even Brahmins as he used to say Gounders are very honest). There are only two ministers now with dummy portfolios. Thevars have 30/38 MLAs and 4 ministers with strategic portfolios, Vanniars have 50/60 MLAs with 3 strategic ministeries in their respective areas. Central MP position is even bad 5/11 constituencies and no central ministers from the community while Vanniars and Thevars have 3 strategic ministers each. Gounders are thus all set to lose their status within the next 5 years.


Kongumandala satakam

Kongudesa rajakkal

(list of books in seperate catalogue)


velumani said...

It is really great to know the history of my community and this will be shared to one and all in my family and relatives.

tks. keep trying to enlighten us more.

sankar789 said...

i must know this is real blog

velumani said...

my name is velumani hailing from a respectable agricultural kongu vellala family. i belong to villi kulam. my kuladeivam is alagu nachiamman. it is between kangayam and muthur at valliarachal village.

i really appreciate the informations furnished abt kong vellala community and i wish you every success in your endeavour.

tks and regards
velumani.muthusamy gounder

yasotha said...

Dedicated jog... keep it up...
This is very useful blog to know our community, culture. kvgians must share this to all.

Anand Kumar Deva said...

Really a good blog, must know informations. Great job, thanks.

Balu said...

A great work, to record all our history, customes, value systems and to spread unity amoung us. I appreciate this work. We are from legends and now heading toward nowhere. Its wake up call. Reunite , fight for our rights. reinstate our leadership in our state n country.

velumani said...

I am Velumani - Villi kulam. Any software engineers around the world who belongs to villi kulam. i request any one of them to create a website for villi-kulam specifically to know us each other and show our strength to the whole Kongu vellalars. Any one of Villi kulathar can initiate and i will extend my fullest support to them. Let us break the ice by creating such website and pave the way to others. my e-mail id :

Coimbatore, India.

Ramesh Kumar.N, MBA said...

hai i m ramesh kumar really happy to read our kongu gounder story very nice. i m belongs to veliyam kooam. i request u to add our marriage valthu ie managalavathzu in this history

thanking u

yogi_810131 said...

Hi...My name is Yogeswaran from Malaysia. I am from sengguni koolam. Nice to know more about the history of my caste.



sivaraasu said...

Really good and commentary,Every kongu friend has to see this verse. I have one request, If we translate this in TAMIL, much more people will benift, thanks. siva

joe said...

it is very good and very useful collection for everyone in kongu who want know about community and brave themself.


really its such a very useful info...proud to be a KV Gounder..

senkottayan said...

really a good work..
hi my name is K. senkottayan, advocate in karur( i belong to vellayan kootam and my kulladeivam is solliamman located in athur village at karur.

i heartly thanks for your work..

Sakthi's Blog said...

It is very useful information for everyone belongs to kongu who want know about community

Be Proud to be a Kongu ....

Vasuki said...

It is a wonderful piece with lots of information. Is there any information about Cheralan kootam whose Kuladeivam is Vanji amman of Moolanoor near Dharapuram.

shree said...

Awesome! I'm a Gounder from Karur. Awesome for u 2 write this stuff. Currently in Tampa Florida USA.

lr said...

Hi! Im from the Kannan Kootam.. I amazed to know the history of our caste.. Your work is truly appreciated!! - lr (USA)

XpShutdown_immediate said...

Good work. Someone like thooran should write the history of our caste(unbiased!). Plus we should encourage newly weds to have MORE CHILDREN for another 20 years

Is muralidharan gounder?....his grandfathers name is periyasamy if i remember correctly....please confirm this.

Senthil said...

It's really a useful info to our community ppl's...... thanks dude..

saanthikj said...

Great job It is heartening to know our history Let us all unite to prove our strength

Anonymous said...

thanks for your good job in enlightening fellow ppl..
after reading ur blog browsed the net and found this interesting piece of info

Gangavanshi Kshatriya:
Gothra - Kanvayan. Ved - Samved. This vansha was named after Raja Gangeya. The famous Jagannath temple at Puri was build by this vansha. This vansha also has its own calender.

venkateswaran said...

It is very nice to know the history of kongu vellala gounder community.

This information is very useful for future generation.


venkateswaran,vellakovil.kangeyam taluk.Erode district

K.S.Gopalakrishnan said...

Prof. K.S.Gopalakrishnan...Very excellent and tedious work.Keep it up.

Arun said...

Thats great.. We need to develop this site a bit with photos & ancient sculptures, coins depicting kongu's life style... Applause to you buddy.. u did a great job at such an young age..


SELVAM K said...

It is very nice to know the history of kongu vellala gounder community.

This information is very useful for future generation.


h said...

hi all
every one said only good things abt this community
but from my point of view
gounders love their land more than people
and gounder people are also fsmous for untouchability(treating lower caste people very badly)and no one speaks abt it. i dont know why...even educated people are also like that only
ashamed of urself....

h said...

hi all
every one said only good things abt this community
but from my point of view
gounders love their land more than people
and gounder people are also fsmous for untouchability(treating lower caste people very badly)and no one speaks abt it. i dont know why...even educated people are also like that only
ashamed of urself....

Baskarelango said...


This is very useful blog to know about Kongu family. One more thing I want to tell you gusy, please dont say Kongu vellalar as a caste. It is a family. Dont use the word caste.
You said about Ganga dynasty. But in Karnataka, here they are telling that the gangas are kanadigas. But they are pure tamilians. We need to prove it.
Please go through the below link.

durai said...

it is a fine job well dine

raja said...

Kongunadu has nearly 70 assembly constituencies out of the total 234. This region has been economically strong but politically very weak because disunity among the majority Gounders.Today Gounders who are estimated to be the single largest caste in Tamilnadu of about 70-80 lakhs are represented only in 23/65 assembly constituencies. This is radically opposite to the 30/30 and 4 important ministers in the Rajaji berth. (The only caste given 4 ministers by the great Rajaji , not even Brahmins as he used to say Gounders are very honest). There are only two ministers now with dummy portfolios. Thevars have 30/38 MLAs and 4 ministers with strategic portfolios, Vanniars have 50/60 MLAs with 3 strategic ministeries in their respective areas. Central MP position is even bad 5/11 constituencies and no central ministers from the community while Vanniars and Thevars have 3 strategic ministers each. Gounders are thus all set to lose their status within the next 5 years.what happen to our people make sure to attend our kongu vellala arasial elachi mannadu on 15 -02-09 or contact this no for more info we nead your support 04242265447 cell 9842333555



FEB 15'2009


Senthil said...

I am happy to see the history of the 'kongu velalar' community. Currently i am watching the live telecost from karumathampatti. Unity is strength. Today the world will know about our stregth.

'Nammal Mudium'. This is the last chance for us to show our stregth and make the changes.

net said...

webtelecast super idea..lot of people.especially woman ..

net said...

new flag and the political party name announced.i hope surely our people to vote to our political party..KONGU NADU MUNNAERTA PAYRAVAI....from..prakash pollachi..coimbatore dt.


as in this blog we r not going to fall in 5 years we r going to shine NAMBUNGAL NAMMAL MUDIYUM the great sucess of peravai manadu is the small example for that


(esskeepee) sathishkumar.p (THUREN KULAM)....DEVI MOBILES, COIMBATORE,...

net said...

daily write something.. make it like an website..i found so many relatives decided to vote for our party...prakash...pollachi.

navarasam1995 said...

I Have attended the "KONGU VELLALAGOUNDER ARASIAL EZUCHI MANADU" on Feb 15th,2009. It was fantastic crowd of 7-8 Lakhs.Many Good & Fantastic Things i came across in the function are... i)Huge Crowd came with their own vehicle(it shows their affection on our communtity- (* No Briyani , quarter supplied to bring crowd)) ii)Well planned route map to travel without traffic iii) not even a single issues or problems or fight in the crowd,Everyone of our relations showed they are very decent well profession gentle man/women. iv) Fantastic Perking facility for all vehicles v) LCD/TV arrangements to comfortably view the function from long distance. vi) good commando force(Youth Team) with walkie talkie. vii)water,food ,etc.., facilities... viii) All shops,hotels,wineshop closed sharp by 9pm to avoid problems... like this there are so many wonderfull things to share... but no space to post the comment... Eventhough all positives but with one negative is : once the function become a record/more successfull all TV Channels stopped praising or showing the function even in the news except one or two channels... (Politics)....

net said...

i think t.v channels are jelous of our community was announced later that we propose to start an t.v channel by name KONGU TV.but dono when it will could be nice if an website be tht every of us can register with our

velumani said...

I have suggested long back that our IT professionals of Kongu Geniuses can launch a website by getting a sponsor from leading personalities in our community.

Nobody has come forward for doing

I once again appeal to our KONGU IT professional Lions to do this at once. i don't know whether it has already been done. if anybody knows it let it be spread to all our community people.

Vaalha Kongu Vellalar community.

Valarha avarhalin perumai.

Villi Kula Kongu Lion.

velumani said...

'Arasial Eluchi Maanadu' opening is super. But i am afraid the dirty politicians play their role cunningly and split it like Vivasayihal Sangam. I appeal to all the leaders of our community to don't become prey to the dirty politicians for the welfare of our community.

Villi Kula Kongu Lion.

Vel said...

Hi All,

It seems,atleast now some good things are happenings in tamilnadu. wakeup kongans.. we can rock..

Murugavel gounder.
s/w Eng,

Super Gounder said...

i have one doubt regarding the Modavanthi Gounder ? Do they belong to our Kongu Vellalar Gounder or not. Since in the Kongu Manadu they are all proclaiming they are Kongu Vellalar Gounder which for me it's very hard to digest. If any one from our community can help me in finding out it will be of an great help not only to me but also to our community. The reason is that one of that Modavanthi Gounders had requested for an marriage with my sister !

Please help me to sort it out.

net said...

talking about modavanti it seems they slowly trying to join with us..only kongu vellala gounders know who are all modavanti gounders in our places..for other castes they show as if they are also kongu vellala gounders..but it seems they have also grown in wealth nowadays.( for us they still modavanti gounders..for other castes they are gounders..)super gounder better choose kongu vellala mapalai itself..

velumani said...

Dear Kongu Friend,

First of all we should know that if anybody declares that they belong to Kongu Vellala community, then ask about their Kulam alias Koottam. The list of kulam available in this website itself. If they are unable to tell their kulam / koottam definitely they are not Kongu Vellala.

So you can try that method to find out whether they have any Kulam / Koottam. Modavanthi Gounders i think it is something different from Kongu Vellalar community. So try to get away from this proposal. So many kongu mappillais are in search of good girls. I have some boys in good position.

If u r interested pls tell abt u and ur family and ur sister. i can give the details of boys of my relatives. can i help you.

my email id-
Coimbatore Kongu singam.
i belong to villi kulam.
my wife belong to payaran kulam.

i am working in a Government organization.


Tamizhan said...


I would like to get a justification on why the newly formed party went on to join with AIADMK?

I was so worried sooner after I saw the news. It looks like a pre-planned strategy to join AIADMK, cause they went to Chennai 2 days after the Karumathampatti ARASIAL EZUCHI MANADU.

If anyone could help me in this it would be highly appreciative.

Suresh Kumar

velumani said...



net said...

actually our party is slightly admk supportive..bcz in recent pcr problem its dmk which dint help our some cases instead of 15 days they increased it to 25 days non bailable.but party going to stand in election single only.

Guhan said...

vanakkam uyir ullangale.... naan kongu naattil piranthatharkaga perumai padukiren. nammaal mudiyathathu ethuvum illai.. nammai vendravarkalum yaarum illai. ulagukke unavu tharum unnatha thozhil nam vivasayam.. this blog is really great to know about our prestigious caste.. let we all join hand to rule the world.. all the best to all my relatives in this world....

star said...

mr.velumani kongu lion.. i really appreciate ur words and ur sincerety towards ur kongu community. at the same time, pls mind that in this century kulam and gothram shouldn't be given greater importance in life. pls remember of periyar's and barathi's words. jathikal illayadi paapa... he himself do not want the kids' mind to be polluted by people like u who upholds jathi n gothram. for your information im also from kongu community.. bt im nt as fanatic as u. pls bear in mind, that every one is same in God's eyes. there's only 2 kulams ; man n woman.. mind it. pls don't be so fanatic and don't try to muddle others thinking, especially our new generation. they knows life and human's feelings better than u.

velumani said...

I expect valuable comments.

star said...

mr. velumani, wat do you mean by valuable comments? r u trying to say tht my comments r nt valuable? actually, wat i commented was d facts.. try 2 accept it & pls don't comment others if you cannot digest it.

net said...

it looks like star is loving a sakkilichii..

star said..., its better to fall in love wth sakilichi than galz from this kongu community. i see humans through their hearts not through races, kulam or gothram... im nt in love wth sakilichi.. bt i dont think its wrong to fall in love wth those galz.. u r well educated -i guess so... so pls, widen ur mind and stop ur narrow thinking by separating pple by races n kulams..

net said...

star better u dont write any more here..its better for u to create an separate blog for ur sakkilichii love community.

JASMINE said...

I strongly object the comments of Mr. Star. Better dont write anymore here and avoid provoking the kongu community people. Why you are so wild against this community, you being part of it. Nowhere Mr. Velumani degraded any other community. What is the harm in praising our communities pride. What made you comment like this. As you a co-kongu lion, dont do it any more please.

Super Gounder said...

Thank you velumani sir, i was not able to reply due to personal reasons and i had arranged the marriage for my sister, with our caste mapillai itself. Thank you for your information and long live Kongu Vellala Gounder !

velumani said...

Happy to know this. Thank you for informing me the good news of fixing the marriage of your sister. Please convey my best wishes. I Pray Lord Muruga to shower His blessings on your sister and your family.

velumani said...

Happy to know this. Thank you for informing me the good news of fixing the marriage of your sister. Please convey my best wishes. I Pray Lord Muruga to shower His blessings on your sister and your family.

ராஜ்குமார். said...

hi i am rajkumar from namakkal.. i belong to veliyan kootam and my kuladeivam is sellandiamman. it is in keezh sathampur village of namakkal district..
i am very happy to c the detail history of kongu vellala gounders..

ராஜ்குமார். said...

hi i am rajkumar from namakkal district and i am an engineer...
i belong to veliyan kootam and my kuladeivam is sellandiamman.. it is situated at keezh sathampur village in namakkal district..

it is really very happy to see the details of our community..

velumani said...

As I said in my comment dt. 16.02.2009, our politicians know the art of divide and rule method learnt from British people and implement it in our State. Our community 'Arasial Eluchi Manadu' was not done unitedly, i think. because some other group started like this in Namakkal. Are they both one and the same or different.
Can somebody explain it.

net said...

even though there is another group..only one candidate is going to stand in election per just vote for kongu naadu munnataera paeravai..

velumani said...

Definitely we all should vote for our community people only. Let us give a wide publicity among our Kongu Lions and their families.

raja said...

should change our party name to gain other comunity support, make it Kongu Nadu Party (KNP)

Eagle said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
star said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
net said...

you both star and eagle no one mind what ever u say..KATTA VITHU KALLA KUDITCHALUM GOUNDAN KOUNDAN THAAN...

velumani said...

This is the quality of our community. Full of EGO. Nobody is prepared to accept the facts. All are talking that all castes are equal in the earth. Of course, Kulam, Koottam, Kothram are not necessary, if all other castes are considering the same. Every caste is supporting fully their caste people only. Why not our community. To my experience, enemies are within our community only. If someone progress in our community, our community people only try to pull him down and this is common in our community.

This most of us would have come across in their life. Supporting our community people is lagging.

Previous comments of our community people ? are the best example.

Anyway I am proud to be Gounder community. That's all. I will try to induct the proudness, richness and uniqueness of our community to my level best to the younger generation.

Our community is considered to be the best for its innocence, generacity, loyalty, etc. and respected by all other castes. This we cannot deny.
No comments / posts will prevent me from my attitude.

Once again I am proud to be Gounder.


hello me eagle.... u r right v r not 100% in kongu nadu places but v r d majority.... mind ur words on comment... or i will show u what a GOUNDAN s capable off.....dont mess with us....

net said...

eagle muudittu chumma time u write blog here innum asinghaa thitta vaendi varumm..

velumani said...

Funny comments from our Kongu Lions !

This blog is about Kongu Vellala Gounder history.

You are going away from the theme of this blog.

Please try to purify the quality of our caste, if you find some impurities in it.

Do you think all Gounders are arrogant, inhumane, etc. etc. as you blamed. This kind of bad kind of people are always available in every caste.

If you want to make it good, you do it. Dont comment that all Gounders are not good. Only very few people may be like that. Otherwise our caste may not have this much of respect among other communities.

As I said already, all people love our caste because of their good quality and generosity.

Do you know how many reservation categories are torturing our caste people in the name of PCR? First you find out these truths then you comment on PCR.

Don't you feel proud that you are a Kongu Vellalan? Have you not felt proud when you reply to the answer to the question What caste you belong?

If our caste is like what you blamed, our caste will not have this much of reputation still.

So, don't quarrel all Kongu Vellalans among each other - a bad quality among our Kongu Lions.

Be a very good Kongu Vellala Gounder for the sake of our ancestors.

Vel Gounder said...

do u knw wt d population of kongu vellalar gounder in tamilnadu its 1.5crore....

and u said about thaniarasu he has joined in d party just before 2 weeks... u need to make m works more... u must need current updates... and u r saying tat v wont win... v know v cant win in 12 seats but v will atleast in 6(do u knw d current survry taken by dinamalar wr kongu party competiting)

plz dont compare kongu with pmk thy r just few only 50L.... kongus r thrice thn them...

in all kongu places v r 50 to 60% mind tat also mr (nan than solleren nalla u must collect more information.......)

v r not making sins mr... do u knw hw many persons hav been affected by tis....???

and one mor thng try to communicate in original nam....

Vel Gounder said...

i hav already told u tat... mind ur words.. and also comment on ur original name....

the survey has been taken by dinamalar tat i hav mentioned in d above comment.... b4 10 yrs itself v got d population of 85L hw it may decrease.... u need mor information and search it properly...

v knw wat s d realistic of winning... watch out d elections tat v wil b 6 in loksabha....

again i m telling u tat mak comment in ur original nam....

ashwin.g GOUNDER said...

I got more inffermation about
kongu vellala gounders
thankyou for this blog

Vel Gounder said...


The Kongu Vellala Gounder Peravai, which claims a support base of 1.5 crore Kongu Vellala Gounders in the western belt of the state Tamilnadu. (

watch out these links...(
it mentioned more than 10%... tis site has been created b4 8 yrs.... tis mention tat d population is abov 80L... and watch out in tis site wat thy hav mentioned tat (kongu vellalars r not in political and thy hav been negleted)

to fulfil our basic requirment v started our party...


can u giv me d data tat wch u say d lawyer hav submitted?????

try to post comment on ur own name....

Vel Gounder said...


i hav said tat it above 10% bfore 8 yrs as on 2001....

as a matter of fact v r more than 1.2C... let us watch out d elections who s going to win... i m sure tat v r gng 2 win in 6 seats....

i need 2 ask u another thing... r u gounder....???? and mention ur original name on next comment....

Vel Gounder said...


lets see after d elections....and v r not against muslims and christians... if any 1 claim for mor % seats r for alowanc will it would be lik againsting thm....???

ராஜ்குமார். said...

mr sivakumar nowhere in the election manifesto knmp has sought the removal of pcr..

It should be reformed so that it is not used for personal vengeance..

Apart from reservation and pcr acts there are other things which has to be attended in kongu area..

Can you list the development schemes undertaken by the government for the past 40 years in the kongu region.. The development of this area is mainly by the people of this area and not by the government...

For the past 30 years the dmk and admk are the ruling parties.. What they did to our region..

So it is not a fault to start a political party to achieve our goals..

Regarding the election even if we have 80 lakh people (according to you) we are majority in 5 seats(around 60 -70%)..Even if 70 % of our people vote for us we will definitely win..

Instead of voting for any other party we want our people to vote for our party..

who actually divided the people with castes..for the past 35 years namakkal assembly seat has been a reserved seat even though it has 50 to 60 % gounders.. if we are really arrogant on caste means there would have been no mla in that constituency..

please try to understand if kongu region develops means not only kvg s but also other people will be benefited..

the only way to develop our region is to show the politicians we will not tolerate the step mother attitude shown towards our region..For that we have to be united and win at least 6 lok sabha seats..

So please don’t degrade us with your comments…

net said...

Best in pollachi..huge crowd in pollachi even without advertisement about 35,000 people attend the meeting for candidate annuoncement.with out any proper announment of the meeting.DMK has fielded an dummy candidate for word still about admk candidate..good chance for best winning in pollachi..most of the dmk,admk has changed to some villages there is no dmk and admk,every one has changed to knmp ( as almost all villages around pollachi has 99 percent gounders only).no matter whethere we get deposit or not..all votes polled now will reflect our party in state election.goundan vote goundanukku thaan...admk,,dmk gounder candidates r not calssifed as gounders..

velumani said...

Thanks Mr. Rajkumar for your valuable comments.

Keep aside all our statistics including the comments of statistics genius Mr. Eagle /Sivakumar.

First of all let us unite and vote for our community candidate. Let us see the results and you pass your comments.

Degrading our community is not necessary now.

Considering our community people's magnanimity and generosity, other caste people will also vote for us. This also should be kept in mind.

Once again I appeal to all our Kongu Lions to cast your vote completely to our people blindly for the benefit of Kongu region.

Also canvas others also for our candidates.

jegan said...

Thanks for the blog. Wonderful information.

@ Eagle. You seem to be very informed, but why bring your fight here. From the looks of the replies you are not very welcome here.

The important thing is to represent. Kongu region has been long neglected. We need a voice. The party is not caste based. By its manifesto it has shown that it is for the development of the region. I hope the party wins a couple of seats just to shut down cynics like you.

ராஜ்குமார். said...

this blog has been started for the kvg people to know the history of our people and the rich cultural heritage we possess..

we are not proud of the name kongu vellala gounder but its heritage and tradition..even most of the other community people lost their tradition we still preserve it..

due to the negligence of the government the kongu region itself is becoming unfit for living..our main occupation agriculture itself is dimnishing and our young people are going away from our homeland(kongunadu) to earn a bread..

if this continues surely surely our people will be attracted by other cultures and our culture will diminish..a man can be best preserved in his culture when he has good living environment..

so the develoment of kongu region is very important and we believe firmly that our knmp will try to bring change in our area..we have full confidence with kongu nadu munnetra peravai and you cannot shake it with your so called information based on statistics ..

so mr sivakumar(eagle) please dont continue your anti kvg statements and anti knmp campaign in this blog..

for fellow kvg ians please ignore mr sivakumar's comments and let him comment alone in the blog.. we will try to improve our culture by showing our younger generation that we have a very rich tradition and we are not based on caste ism and untouchability

net said...

எப்படி இருந்த EAGLE இப்படி ஆயிட்டே.பேன்ட் போடாத EAGLE அம்மணம் ஆன மர்மம் ....soon to come..

vasanth said...


net said...

50,000 people gathered with BEST RAMSAMY in pollachi today for the filing of nomination..the biggest crowd for kongu.

net said...

come to pollachi and coimbatore and see.each and every kongu gounder home is supplied with kongu flag.all of them have hosted..i filmed the video of nomination filing rally i am going to put in youtube also.u see.7000 flags where supplied in pollachi until now all of them have hosted.most of the villages in pollachi have no political parties at all all gounders have dissolved and joined kongu party. .u can stop ur nonsense comments about kongu candidates....

net said...

deposit ponalam paravala we dont care we real kongu gounders are going to vote for kongu only.if u dont vote or support kongu we dont care.

truth said...

Vetty beggars..Oru black white house-a rule panniturakka kalathulayum unga buddhi maradha da..neenga yellam indha naatuku irukka saaba kaedu..

Kongu vellala gounderam..heritage-am...culture-am...

No race is inferior or superior... Human race-a pathi pasei irundhenga na peruma padalam..ippdai unga jathiya pathi peruma paesikittu..mathavangal matta paduthi kittu!

Yeppadi..yeppadi.. matha jathi yellam vandhu unga weddings-la vaela seivangala?

mmm...innum villages la indha kodumai yellam nadakudha? Innum yethanai naalaikku manushane manushana nasukkura indha kodumai thodarum?

"Plus we should encourage newly weds to have MORE CHILDREN for another 20 years"...Dai..Kongu Nadu India-la dhane irukku?

Population Explosion-la naade thavichu kittu irukkum bodhu yedho Australia la irukka madhiri oru mattamana staement..

Innum vara pora genreation-sukkum unga 'jathi veri'-ngra vishatha oota poreengala?

Mmm...urupatturum! Ungala yellam 'Marunagada' nu solluradhu sevidan kadhula sangu oodhura kadhai dhan...

Kaalam marriturukku da...Unga attitude ku yellam mudivu romba dhoorathula illa! Wait n watch...

Jegan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
net said...

vote for kongu..we love gounder caste.what ever u say gounder is gounder..nee yennamo sollitu poo.we dont care..GOUNDER GOUNDER GOUNDER.BORN AS GOUNDER ..DIE AS GOUNDER..LOVE GOUNDER CASTE..1 vote vaanginalum sari..100 vote vaanginalam sari..goundan goundan thaan.

net said...

watch out for MLA election also in most of the constituency there are even 90 percent gounders seems atleast 15 seats is going to be won by knmp with ease.already dmk is positioned out for religion party mmk spliting dmk votes and making way for knmp candidate to win in pollachi and in coimbatore.

ராஜ்குமார். said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
ராஜ்குமார். said...

dear kvgians please ignore mr eagle's comments and let we do our work..we should make ourselves more close and show our strength

for mr eagle and mr truth you both are trying to create an appearance that kongu vellala gounders are very arrogant in caste..that's not the past a person belonging to sc caste cannot even enter the streeet where upper caste people are living..even that day also we mingle with our marriages and deaths they play an important role.. even in the ponnar sankar history they have veerasambuvan as their friend who hails from a lower my kuladeivam temple we have madurai veeran samy,a deity for the lower class people.. nowadays people are changing and the practice of untouchability is dimnishing..i already told you our proud is of our rich cultural heritage and not on jathi veri..

young people are studying in various places and they even dont know about the castes..we have friends from all castes and religion..we does not tell a person to hate other castes..

so eagle anna inima unga manapokka mathikunga.. summa gounder ellam jathi veri pudichivan enru sollathinga...eppadiyum neenga solratha naanga mathika porathu kedayathu apparam yen veena neratha selavu panni blog podaratha enga urima.. nanga knmp ku vote panratha muvivu summa ethavathu arasialvathi pati kodutha atha padichitu vanthu ungaluku deposit kooda kedaikathu,ungaluku yarum vote panna mattanganu katha alakathinga...naanga jaichalum ungaluku unnum nastam aga porathila thothalum ungaluku ethum kedaika porathu illa..apparam yan intha vetti pantha..

ithukum vazhakam pola ungaluku strategy theriyala antha website la appadi potrukan neenga mothama 40 latcham perthan irukinga appadi nu ezhuthama vela ethavathu iruntha parunga

ராஜ்குமார். said...

mr eagle i know how insult it will be to be served in a two tumbler system and how difficult to work in the field for a mere wage.. i came from a village and i know the treatment mend to the lowercaste people.. but as i already told you nowadays the attitude of people is changing and untouchability is dimnishing...

10 varudathirku munnal irunthathai vida ippozhuthu makkalin manappoku innum munnetram adainthullathu...enathu veetaraga thalith makkal ullanar..engal veetukul vara mootha thalith makkal thayunguvarkal anal avarkalathu magan,magal anaivarum tharalamaka ulla varuvarkal.. innum sirithu varudangal ponal theendamai muzhamaiyaka ozhinthuvidum..

pcr sattathai poruthavarai thavaraka payanpaduthuvathai thavirkavandum..athil sila matrangal seiya vandum enru than solkirom..

knmp enpathu oru jathi amaipil irunthu uruvana katchi yaga irukalam..anal kongu mandalathirku pothuvana katchiyaga athu seilpadum ..muslim and padugas en knmp il sera vendum..en neelagiri oru thalith canditate nirka vaika vendum..kongu mandalam purakanikapattathu unmai athanal than matra makkalam atharavu tharukirarkal..

meendum solkiran nangal gounder enru sollikolla perumai padukirom enenral athil ulla kalacharam,pazhavazhakangal ivatrirkaka.. nanagal alum varkam enra karvam illai..

thappu seithal avarkalai thirutha vendum atharkaka oru samugathai kutram sulvathu eppadi nyamagum..

i assure that we youngsters will never practice untouchability and we will not teach it to our please avoid anti kvgian statements..

velumani said...

I think eagle try to push more anti-kvs slogans in this blog by giving general statistics and information which are unrealistic about the KVs.

What he is thinking in his mind.
Is he against KVs or mere an egoist person.

Why so aversion about KVs. Can he declare that in other castes 100% people are good enough. It is unwanted to make a statement that all KVs are against other lower communities. He can go and see in all villages. How KVs are taking care of their dependent other caste people. How generous and loyal they are.

It is not correct to compare our KV peravai people with ordinary politicians.

I fully agree with Mr. Rajkumar's statement.

What matters Mr. Eagle to curse KVs. Whether he is affected personally by the castism.

Whatever you write in this blog, we will vote for KVs and you will see the results. Victory or defeat is no matter. Proving KVs strength is the matter.

So all KVs shall we cast our vote to our co-kongu lions in the coming election on 13.05.2009, which will be an other avenue to lead.

Velumani - Kovai Kongu Lion

head said...

it is good to be proud of one's origin and place, but if it becomes fundamental and fanatic, then it is dangerous. I think there is an element of castism in KNMP i have noticed while touring the kongu nadu. KNMP is forcing its own community to display flags [remembers me of hitler's germany] and their supporters observe and watch others. Since the KNMP bosses are rich and other castes earn their livlihood from them, there will be direct or indirect attempts to stop them from voting, especially in the rural areas.

KNMP is emotinally orchestrating its pogram, but many of the poor and middle class sections of vellalars / gounders don't know that they are being mislead by the rich.
Let us see how KNMP is influential.. it will be another PMK where the founders become richer and the followers [vanniyars] become poorer.

the fact is that tamilnadu is now divided and it has become another Bihar, is very sad. The land of great persons like Anna, periyar, Bharathi, Kamraj has now become a nazi state. Tamils, my dear tamils, think before you vote..

my dear friends of KNMP, i appeal to you as fellow citizen of Kongu Nadu, if we go back to the barbarian brahminical order, then you will not develop the region.. you will bring unrest in the region. Think before you vote

aru pon natarajan Pollachi

net said...

there is no force to host the flag ..if u wish u can..u come and see pollachi..actually it has been fashion like thing here..each and every car is with our with kmp flag..also lot of nadar vehicles are with stickers,,beleve it or not lot of vehicels stopped and asked for sticker and pasted and you think the castism was only during the confrence pollachi kongu is supported by lot of castes including nadars,muslims, lot of problem in and around pollachi connecting coimbatore and all..pollachi is neglected by even big heads like stalin and vaiko for election campiagn..if you know that our 42,000 revenue go to chennai and we were spend only little for kongu..u dont scould aparty like kongu..there were no bridge for two railway level crossing between pollachi and coimbatore..even though 66 trains pass daily..with lakhs of people travelling between pollachi and coimabtore..pollachi has to be district bcz its population is 9 lakhs.with 3 districts separted recntly are 5 lakhs..6,,lakhs and 8 lakhs...if you think as common person living in pollachi and not as will like kmp where ever u are..if u think its kongu party u r still in those kongu vellela gounder sangam and all.u have separate member ship for that and sangam and kmp..any one can choose from the two.just kmp distirct level heads will be included by other castes also in gounder also love kongu nadu..and all castes people living in kongunadu.

ராஜ்குமார். said...

i dont know why people are always trying to stamp knmp as caste based party..tell me any party which does not support casteism in politics..among them which we choose our candidates as our choice..

pmk is different from knmp..there the leaders become richer and the followers become poorer..
but the leaders of our knmp are top class businessmen,engineers,agriculturist..if they have spend the time in their occupation instead of working for the peravai and party they would have earned many crores..

some of our candidates are social activitists even before starting the party..our party has been struggling for farmers problems like toddy tapping,land pollution,water problelm,water pollution etc..

long standing problems in kongu region
1.doubling of railway line b/w irugur and cbe
2.train route connecting salem and karur through namakkal
3.except erode bus stand other bus stands in kongu area does not have the capacity to handle the traffic
4.refridge stations for agricultural products
5.toddy tapping
6.sugarcane price
7.the conditions of roads even nhs are also very bad
8.drinking water problem new government educational institutions in the past 30 years

like these there are so much of problems in kongu area..

you are asking the people to think before voting.. if all the people think before voting india will be a developed country..all the parties think that they can win the seat by fielding a gounder or vanniyar or naidu according to the majority caste..for example we are going to vote for a gounder who belongs to a dravidian party. after winning he has to obey his/her leaders command who is also a caste based person.. so we directly vote for ourselves..

you can say we are threatening the sc people to vote for us..but what about the christians and muslims who joins us..the number may be small but it is changing in tamil nadu politics..not only them but nadars,navidhars and various communities are supporting us as they are bound with us and they want a change in the region..

again i am saying that dont tell that we are like hitler because we dont compel any body to vote for us but we request them

head said...

Dear Rajkumar,
I do understand that our region has some problems. Do you think the other regions of Tamilnadu have no problems? If you think that the problems can be solved by political parties, then we should not have any problems! instead we have more problems!!
The lack of social awareness in our region is the cause of problems. You wrote about educationists, industrialists.. what they have done to our region all these years? They made money, they buuilt ashrams and hospitals, liquor industries and institutions and made money.. what about the lower and middle class? we paid for all with our hard earned money, and many times with borrowed money. What have these educationists and industrialists done other than giving fat donations to our political parties from which they have alone benefitted.
Walk through the region, you will see people and their suffering.. Why do you talk about gounders, nadars, chettiars etc and go back to the history of humiliation and inhuman practices?
why do our farmers sell farm land to real estate owners? why do we convert paddy fields, cotton and groundnut fields to coconut grooves? Why do we destroy agricultural land and build industries? How many rich persons really helped poors? The poors live in their huts and ottuvidoos, whereas the rich built bungalows.
I am not a communist, i want our region to develop socially. Instead of organising ourselves locally and developing our own villages and towns, we want to go to delhi and chennai like others by forming political parties.. why? Did they solve any problem?
We have divided ourselves by caste and religion and we say we want to develop our region! it is ridiculous.
Without asking the house owners KNMP pasted stickers on houses, put up flags and wrote on the walls.. like others! KNMP watches the others and by organizing marches, a threat is given to others. Handle gas cylinder cautiously otherwise it is dangerous..
If we are really interested in the development of local bodies, we should organize locally and find solutions to our problems. I don't think anyone opposes such initiatives. But have we organized ourselves locally? No. We have the caste divisions. many local people who live generations in their locality have no identity card, voter id...many outsiders have purchased land and property.. where is our local organization? In the kongu region, mostly the power was with Gounders. Why haven't they done anything? Most of the representatives were Gounders, what have they done? Why do they need a party today? What is the motive? If they have to obey the others, why didn't they tell earlier? Why now??
Dear Rajkumar, you know about pangali sandai...
Let us come together socially as one unit at each level and for that we don't need any KNMP or any other party. Let us have local organizations with representatives from all sections and find solutions. You see how many parties are spending crores of money for nothing.. and they want to earn the crores from others..
Friends, being born and brought up in the heart of Kongu region, i am proud of my kongu indian identity, i am interested in the development of my region, but i tell you how mean we are.. we wanted to start a school, but a big land owner does not want to sell a 10 feet land for road.. hundreds of people live in the fields of land owners and work and protect their properties, but they don't have electricity in their huts, no toilets...
Do you know the social reality of kongu region? Do you know the cause of social issues/ problems in Kongu nadu? Before blaming others, we should blame the power groups in our region. How can KNMP wash off its sins?
with regards to our fellow kongu indian citizens
aru pon natarajan pollachi

velumani said...

What is wrong in protecting the caste, which has ruled this region. Again we want that ruling power. That's all. Commenting always against KVs make a doubt.

Declare, if you wish, that you are not belonging to Kongu Vellala. Comparing KNMP with PMK is not at all correct.

We all voted for KNMP. Success or failure, no matter. We united as one in this region. That is a great thing. We will continue this.

After seeing the results, let us discuss again.

Eagle said...

Good posting, Arun. But I guess it wont cut ice with these people - vizhaluku izhaitha neer ..

Velumani - How does it matter whether somebody belongs to KV or not ...Just because if someone belongs to KV do he/she has to blindly follow you people ...dont we have sixth sense ...aren't we watching all your behaviour all these years ....Assuming we dont belong to KV does it means we sould not comment .....Why are you sensitive to truths .....Truth always hurts ....

Remember Kongu region doest not belong to KVGs alone are the dominant community in few areas/pockets thats all. Others will not keep quiet seeing your ways of dividing people and benefitting from it ....

Gothrough my earlier postings and Aruns posting ....Do a soul search instead of plain denial and bullying .....


Eagle said...

Initial exit poll projections put DMK alliance at 11 seats (DMK 7+ congress 4) and AIADMK alliance at 28. Total of 39. BJP, DMDK nowhere in the scene ......

Well for KNMP ....ha ha .. wait till 16 to hear on the excuses ....


Vel Gounder said...

MR Eagle

watch out d predictions on NDTV and CBN tamil nadu
AIDMK-18 DMK-20 wt abt 1 seat?????

net said...

aru pon natarajan pollachiya??...yentha idam?..naanum pollachi thaan.

head said...

Dear velumani,
caste is a wrong concept. If you accept caste, then you should accept that we are all sudras according to brahmins.. it does not matter, if you have money or land.. for brahmins we are sudras, the fourth caste! you like to be called a sudra? Whether you are a Gounder, Chettiar, Nadar, naidu or navithar... it does not matter for brahmins, and that too we are dravidian sudras..
Like for white europeans, all of us indians are black.. however rich or intelligent we are. So, please..don't be so proud of caste, it is inhuman. but let us join hands to develop our kongu region and make us all proud of Kongu Tamil India Identity. We must work in good relationships with others, neighbours and for the good of India.
Forget Elections and politics. Join hands to develop the region socially like any other western country. For that we need to work every hour every day in order to solve our problems, whether it is electricity, education, railway overbridge, infrastructures, industries, employement etc.
Dear velumani, birth is accidental, to be born as Brahmin or sudra is not predetermined. Not all brahmins are castist, we must unite all castes and engineer a good social development where everyone becomes proud of his/her birth and origin. Like in the west where a farmer does not feel any restriction to move up and down in the social ladder depending upon his work and education.
See in the north and west of India where land lords have donated huge lands for educational institutions and developed very good infrastructure, produced leaders and scientists and created name for regions. Tell me one educational institution of that nature in our region. That is what i want to create in our region but our land owners do not have generousity to give a 10 feet road because we are jealousy and greedy and we don't like others moving upwards.. the crabs culture.
Dear velumani, to lift our region we need visionary officers and scientists and not politicians or castists. We need green technology to protect our natural resources and we need education of enlightenment to create better citizens from this Kongu country.
If we cannot sit with everyone and talk and decide then we cannot develop ourselves. If I sit with only my kulam and kottam then i develop not even my kulam and kottam because we have so many divisions in our kulam and kottam where we fight with our own brothers and sisters.
with regards to all our Kongu indian citizens. vanakkam from Pollachi,aru pon natarajan

net said...

polling in pollachi is 76 percent..and not 65 percent as reported earlier..which looks favour for mail me any pollachi friends.

Eagle said...

Confirmed - both KNMP and KNIP - A BIG ZERO. Now wait for the excuses ...will count the votes of all the KNMP candidates polled and say that we have support of so many people ...thanks for them ....blah ..blah ..blah ....Ha ha ..

Needed this for Easwaran who roamed like a telugu film rowdy in
Kovai streets ...and not to mention about the Thaniyarasu who lorded in the Namakkal belt by doing Katta panchayathu ......


net said...

lot of the gounders dint vote for one care about this only a little disappointment..but we all stay with kmp..other parties may have won..but even if got 1 lakh vote it is earned within 3 months..and the party symbol was got only 20 days before.THANKS FOR ALL THOSE WHO VOTE FOR KMP..keep staying in kmp no one can win without our 1 lakh vote.

Eagle said...

Expected reaction - ha ha ....

Guess my prediction was spot on people are able to retain deposit in four constituencies and lost in the remaining. Best, Easwaran, Erode Balasubramaniam got about One Lakh votes each. May be your Thirupur candidate also ....the total of other constituency might be around one to two lakh - so a max of six lakhs is the vote you got .....spread over 12 constituencies ..

You cant go beyond ward or panchayat level with this vote *bank* .......

You said during nomination itself Best got a crowd of 50,000 ??? And you SMS campaign and missed call campaign generated laks and lakhs of responses .....ha ..ha ...

Understand the reality buddies ....Even PMK was routed ...warning for all the Caste based organisations ...

So, the next step is ...bargain for coalition with any Dravidian party for the next election ??? Weclome to another PMK in the making ....


net said...

you expected all candidates to loose deposit..the party is new one and the symbol was given only 20 days before it is admirable to get one lakh in 4 or 5 places..what ever u say there are one lakh people who love kongu..most of gounders already have good posts in dmk and admk,,were unable to join kongu..every common people say kongu within in short time has done well.bcz we support kongu party there is nothing wrong in expecting it to win two seats..nothing going to happen to pollachi or coimbatore as the ruling party is not going to develope these two towns.only dravidian parties has to come for kongu support and there is no need for kongu to search for dmk or admk.

head said...

Dear Kongu Tamil Indians,

it is a good showing by kongu parties in the elections. if kongu parties have to get something concrete, then
1. unite all kongu parties and bring under one banner
2. bring together other caste/ religious groups for the benefit of Kongu region. [don't say that only gounders are kongu! Like gounders, everyone in the region demands respect. give them]
3. organize locally
4. ask for a good election symbol
5. do not field any outside candidate in a constituency. Go for a local candidate [young, well educated, visionary] of a constituency
6. Respect other parties
7. Think locally and nationally
8. Contest elections with parties of close identity

dear friends, KNMP votes were valuable, because of KNMP Coimbatore has gone to communists who are negative minded persons. DMK lost pollachi, Congress lost Erode... Dear KNMP, you have reduced our representation in delhi.
Look at Karunanidhi! after winning the elections with congress votes, he is asking for ministerial berths to his family members only... expose such a party among people!

Dear Eagle, be sensible.. there is no need to mock at anybody. If some persons of KNMP have reacted arrogantly, it is not good to ridicule them.. inna seitharai oruthal avar nana... think about kural.. People like you should join KNMP and develop the region socially and politically in order to give a vibrant form to kongu region.. You know what the DMK and ADMK do..Tamil Nadu needs an alternative..

Dear NET, don't say we don't go to anyone, others should come to us.. if you want to be in politics, then ego is not a good thing. you may have to go to dmk or admk or congress.. look at the reality and think positively. Join hands with like minded persons. Don't be only Gounder-centric. Accept the others too, if you think of kongu region's development.

With best regards to all Kongu tamil indians.. learn from the mistake and go ahead...
aru pon natarajan pollachi

net said...

what is ur email id head?...are u living in pollachi or where?

Eagle said...

Prakash (Net),

Go through my earlier postings - I clearly said you will retain deposit in 4 constituencies and lose deposit in the remaining ....

The votes got by KNMP :

Kovai - 1,28,070
Erode - 1,06,604
Pollachi - 1,03,004
Thirupur - 95,299

Namakkal - 52,433
Nilgris - 32,779

Kallakurichi - 17818
Dharmapuri - 15333
Karur - 14259
Krishnagiri - 4044
Dindugal - 6411
Salem - 3642

Thaniyarasu in Namakkal - 24230

You do whatever analysis you want. The total votes is just about 5 lakhs. You have done reasonably well in the old Kovai district. In that trend you should have got more votes in the Nilgris as it is in the strong Gounder belt of Kovai. But in the Nilgris you have ditched your candidate because he is an SC. This shows your true colours. You cant come out of the caste mindset even within your party. I am sure if the Nilgris is not a reserved constituency the candidate would have polled atleast 50000 votes more.

Learn from the fate of PMK. Even Manidah neya katchi, the political party of muslims fared poorly. So dont put caste in front of your political ambitions. Come down from the pedestal, accept the realities, be practical and above all try to all encompassing - if you still want to do politics with PCR act and all you will become the political untouchable and by next election you are finished ..

Aru Pon - I respect your views. But all those magnanimity and all is useless with these people .....Even in defeat they will not learn lessons ...A bit of mocking and needling is needed to make them stand in the ground ...otherwise they will always float as if there are from Mars ....


net said...

which party got so many votes within 12 days of getting party symbol??..dont say pmk lost .it lost only bcz it went to admk other wise it would have won with dmk.karur got good gounder population but still polled less then to create a new party to take on dmk and admk?.this is the only way..instead of participating from the local body election to mp seat.unfortunately kmp directly and boldy participated in mp seat.and no matter whther u win or lose.dmk say kmp spolied their victory in 4 seats.

Karthik Red said...

I am from PERUNGUDI koolam.........

Right from 3000 B.C everything is ok.....

But one thing i want suggest this blog owner is that, NO CIVILIZATION or DYNASTY exist suddenly , instead , they must have split from a MAJOR huge dynasty........

Simalary, FROM which religion OUR KONGU people first CAME and settled...........AND what we are called so , before we actually called ourselves as kongus..........

A VERY DEEP research is needed for this to find...................

So my request is to find out the real start point, no no, sorry, FIND out what(religion) we were BEFORE THE START POINT OF KONGU ........

Anonymous said...

Excellent show of strength in the 2009 elections. We have polled more than 1 lakh cotes in 4 core constituencies. Many thanks to those who worked hard for campaigning and other activities.

We have to keep working hard for the Assembly elections. With this base we have to build our party. We must make an effort to include all other communities in our forward progress for the development of the Kongu region. The prevailing perception of 'Gounder Katchi' should be slowly changed. Within two elections we can definitely defeat the Dravidian parties.

The next step is to identify the areas of stronghold within the constituencies to elect our assembly leaders. For example Singanallur only got 13000 odd votes but Palladam got about 45000 votes. I'm sure the party mgmt would be doing this. Good luck to them. Nammal Mudiyum!

head said...

Yes, KNMP should be a party of all castes and communities in Kongu region. I think if that is the aim of KNMP, then it will be an alternative to others. We need alternatives.

my email id is

i don't believe in caste or religion, but i respect others. I believe strongly that our region needs political and social representation.

KNMP should contest assembly elections, before that they should organize locally and bring other castes and communities by addressing their issues and respecting their values.

Gounders are basically very accommodative people, have others in the organization.

Dear Eagle, we all can positively build the region. for our people, for our culture, for our nation. Think and make india proud. without regional development, india cannot be a progressive country.

Dear Kongars, unite all the people of different castes and communities in the region. You will win the seats. This election is just a lesson. Learn.
best wishes
aru pon natarajan varanasi [i work in UP]

Eagle said...

Aru Pon Natarajan,

You are being polite and considerate to KVG's. I cannot be so !! In my opinion Gounders are good in every other thing - but not in accomadating other castes. They are too proud of their own caste and supposed superiority and it will be difficult for them to come down form the pedestal ...Politics is an art of giving and taking ...Arrogant talk (look at the Easwaran's talk even after losing) and big brother attitude will not take the KNMP anywhere ...

Besides that, whatever they say and try to do - it is basically a caste based party - Gounder party - nothing is going to change it .... It is not started with the motive of improving Kongu region ...If you see their original demands (formed around Feb), exclusive reservation to Gounders and amendment to PCR act are the main ones. Later only they reworded their agenda and started the rhetoric about Kongu development ..... their attitude to Dalits (Arundhadhiyars in our region) is not going to change overnight.

Believe me ...I've seen the Gounders behaviour in the region of Salem,Namakkal,Erode and Dharmapuri belts .....Their attitude towards the Dalits is one of the worst I've seen among the upper caste Hindus ....There will be denials ....You can even say that you cannot generalise ....But that is the harsh truth ....

If they do real introspection, if they really want to change and do something different let the GOOD ONES among the Gounders change the behaviours of the fellow Gounders ...that itself will be a bigger service to the society ...

Kongu region doesnt need a KNMP to improve itself can take care of its own ....


kavi said...

i am porulur poosan,i proved to kongu vellala gounder,i am very proved of our history ,please realese as book
i am software eng,i am form the kongu vellar gounder community,and iam from kongu nadu ,my kottam is poosan,my kulladeyvam is mangaiamman porulur,in dindigul district in ottanchatram taulk,we were in palani. my village is kothayam,ottanchatram village is 20km from palani and attanchatram,my village 5km away from my kulladeyvam koyil. i wish kongu nadu in feature it should be in the tamil politic and national politics.we need to have our kongu nadu people state¢ral minister,for not only benifit for our community and also for the whole benifit of kongu nadu region i.e western tamil nadu ,people from other community also vote for the devolpment for kongu nadu ,even without our goverment full help we are all kongu nadu people come this far(2/3 economy to tamil nadu from region)even with help goverment , so we the people can reach great height &more more prosporus life vote for KNMP .if they come we can attain full devolpment in this region(i.e front runner in well devolped region in india,in that time we were example to others(rest of india even for world)in devolpment )we can we will
in the state election to win atleast 50 assembly seats
we can we will
use this base vote (i.e6.5 lacs)
make more people aware of the party in our region
start kongu tv to make awareness
if we had shown feb 15 meeting in tv we had win atleast 4-5 seats
make awareness avilable to all people as quick as possible before state election ,we need change our defect to massive win in state election so everbody need to work hard take to more people
we were baby in the mp election,we need show our kongu region strenth

Eagle said...


You are young, you are a software professional, you live in the Internet era where even national boundaries are meaningless - why do you want spend time on caste based politics ?? Be considerate and truthful, use your knowledge and brain - caste system is the bane for human society - to the extent possible try to defuse it - if not dont become part of it. But dont become prey to these kind of cheap caste politics. This is nothing but exploitation of bright minds like you. D something good for your village, your school or much better adopt a Dalit student in your village - fund his education ....Dont ever get into this ....

If you still want to get into this get your facts right - KNMP polled 5.79 laks and not 6.5 lakahs. And mind you winning 50 seats alone and that too in Kongu region alone is almost an impossible proposition. In the TN election history except Congress, DMK and AIADMK no other party has won 50 seats ...In the current TN politics certain things are simply impossible ...Whether KNMP leadrship realises it or not dont waste your time dreaming on that ....

Take care.


saravanan said...

A news item from Times of India on this Gounder issue

Gounder consolidation could pose headache to major parties
21 May 2009, 0301 hrs IST, Jayaraj Sivan, TNN

CHENNAI: Entering the political arena virtually on poll eve, the Kongu Nadu Munnetra Kazhagam (KNMK), claims to be an NGO. But the fledgling
political outfit, which was tipped to wrest at least one seat from the main Dravidian parties, put up a good fight in the just-concluded Lok Sabha election. The outfit may not have won even a single seat but left a mark by playing spoiler in several of the 12 seats it contested. “We have no politician among us and our sole objective is to put the Kongu belt 10 districts in western Tamil Nadu on the fast track of development,” says E R Easwaran, general secretary of the 100-day old KNMK party. The party polled 5.8 lakh votes (1.92%).

It had no television channel of its own, no experienced politician and no alliance partner. With gas cylinder as its symbol, allotted just 14 days before the polls, the KNMK out-performed actor Vijaykanth’s DMDK in Coimbatore, Pollachi, Tiruppur and Erode. In Coimbatore, an erstwhile bastion of the BJP, Easwaran polled 3.37 times more than the national party. In Coimbatore, Pollachi and Erode, the party polled more than one lakh votes, in Tiruppur 95,299 votes and in Namakkal 52,433 votes.

What is intriguing is the poor performance of the party in Karur, another Kongu heartland, where it got only 14,269 votes. Poll observers feel the KNMK had purposefully fielded a weak candidate, R Natarajan, in Karur to help shift their votes to AIADMK’s M Thambidurai, a Gounder by caste. Despite the party performing rather well in Erode, Pollachi and Tiruppur, the community leaders did enough ground work to ensure the victory of Gounders who had contested on MDMK and AIADMK tickets. Among the losers in these constituencies were EVKS Elangovan and K V Thangabalu of Congress. Interestingly, in Namakkal, Gounders supported Gandhi Selvam of DMK, because the community leaders thought there should be at least one ruling party MP from among them, noted a political analyst.

Easwaran claims the community has more than one crore members and roughly 70 lakh votes in the state. Even going by a conservative estimate, Gounders should have roughly 40 lakh votes in the state, feel poll observers. The party is looking at consolidating about 18 lakh votes out of that before the next assembly polls.

The Gounders are an influential community in Coimbatore, Nilgiris, Karur, Namakkal, Erode, Tiruppur, Salem, Krishnagiri, Dharmapuri and Dindigul districts. A good section of the community is highly educated, many from the US and UK. Most of them are third-generation businessmen and put together, they generate roughly Rs 40,000 crore of export revenue annually. Through sheer hard work, its members have attained international recognition. They figure among the global leaders in several sectors including grey cotton, home textiles, hosiery, industrial and automobile components, heavy vehicles and even turmeric and eggs.

ragu said...

iam ragu from karakkumpalayam near perundurai. iam proud to born in this great caste "KONGU VELLALA GOUNDER" & also in the kootam of Theivathiru vallalperunthagai "KALINGARAYAGOUNDER".

rangaswami said...

Iam 61 yrs. old.B.E.Hns.,PSG TECH., & M.TECH., from I.I.T Madrs.
We are almost settled in BANGALORE.

It is really great that the whole history of KONGU VELLALA GOUNDER is systematically written which now most of the youngesters do not know.Mostly because of their being away from home for studies / jobs & so on.
I am going to request my childrens to read this, as I dont thing they
our history the way it is written.
I am sure this is applicable to most of us, in the profesion staying away from home /native.

ராஜ்குமார். said...

any body have kongu mangala vazhthu audio song fully.. i have one but it is not full...does any body has means please upload it...

krishna said...

my name krishna from velur ,namakkal(dt). iam very proud to know about our community.
thanks and regards
krishna raja gounder

krishna said...

hi its krishna from namakkal. iam proud to know about our community
thanks and regards

krishna said...

my name krishna from velur ,namakkal(dt). iam very proud to know about our community.
thanks and regards
krishna raja gounder

nisha said...

hey im nisha n im 4m malaysia..i'm 4m d gounder caste..nice blog..could learn much more bout our caste..hmmm..juz wondering bout our caste's marriage..can v lyk get married 2 diff castes??n if can could u pls list it down 4 me..tq!!



krish said...

Hi Please don take this offensive.
im also KV, Ur efforts are awesome n great and very informative. To achieve a best position running behind de caste and exercising suppremacy wont help. keeping de the spirit of Indian high will take us to great hights.

NithiAnandh said...

A great compilation.
You have mentioned that KVK(Kongu Vellala Kavunder) caste population is declining. This is due to the fact that majority of the population are depending on Agriculture & the governments anti-KVK steps. Government aid is provided for those who have more than 2 or more children. It would be better if a general fund of KVK is started, under which the poor & rural KVK's get the education, thus making their life blossoming.

Eagle said...

KMP lost deposit in Thondamuthur by-election - If you cant make a dent in Kongu heartland wherelese you are going to do ???

Kudos to the KVG's who have NOT voted for KNMP and ensured that there is no place for Caste chauvinists ....

Right Angle said...

I am disappointed, that instead of discussing history, politics is discussed.

Mr. Eagle.. dont think, you know everything and others are fools..

I am a software engg, and i strongly support my caste..

CAste is the strength of Hinduism, and India.. Without caste, there would not be a culture called hinduism.. without caste india would have perished like persia..

If you still want to stick to your blind arguments, please be it.. but dont mock at others who support caste.. otherwise, you will be worst intellectual oppressor here..

If you want to discuss anything, please be factual..

Eagle said...

RightAngle - you are a twisted angle

Shame on you for saying that you are a software engg. and trying to justify the casteism. Casteism is the bane of the Hinduism and is worse than the racism practiced elsewhere ......

பகுத்தறிவு தந்தை பிறந்த நாட்டிலே இன்று ஜாதி வெறி பிடித்த படித்த மேன்மக்கள் ........
ஜாதிகள் இல்லையடி பாப்பா என்று சொன்ன பாரதி பிறந்த நாட்டிலே இன்று ஜாதி சங்கங்ககளும் ஜாதி கட்சிகளும் .......

நெஞ்சு பொறுக்குதில்லயே இந்த நிலை கெட்ட மாந்தரை நினைத்துவிட்டால் .................


Right Angle said...

உங்கள் பகுத்தறிவுத் தந்தையின் யோக்யதை உனக்கு தெரியுமா?

"பெரியாரின் மறுபக்கம்" என்னும் புத்தகத்தை படித்து பாருங்கள்..

80 வயதில் 16 வயது பெண்ணை திருமணம் செய்த ஒரு ஆளை பகுத்தறிவு தந்தை என்று சொல்வது ஒரு வெட்கக்கேடானது..

இதில வேற நெஞ்சு பொறுக்குதில்லையாம்..

Right Angle said...

/** Shame on you for saying that you are a software engg. and trying to justify the casteism. Casteism is the bane of the Hinduism and is worse than the racism practiced elsewhere ......

See.. if people chose to follow their caste, what is the problem for you.. if you dont like your caste, you may not follow it..

Why should you accuse or insult others?

Is it the "Pahutharivu" that your masters told?

Every man has his thinking power, and better please use it.. dont blindly believe in propoganda of the so called "Pahutharivu" leaders.

Eagle said...

Dear Right (Crooked) Angle,

Dont spew venom on individuals who passed away and who have some social standing ....and especially on their personal life ...see what they have achieved socially and for the community ....

You dont know for what they stood and what they achieved .. Untouchability is one of the besetting crimes of the Hinduism and EVR's role in eradicating the same is indisputable ...Read history to understand that ...

You are comfortable because of the hardwork of the people like him ...If not for him, Anna and Kalaignar we all (meaning all non-brahmins) will be doing the menial jobs and the Brahmins will be ruling the roost ...Remember you people (KVG's) are also forward castes and its only Kalignar who gave you the BC status ...

Following a caste is ok as long is it is personal and not affecting others ....

My grouse against KVG's (a section of the KVG's) is their attitude towards Dalits and the lower castes

See the discussions had with few of your people during March-April timeframe ....

Being aggressive wont help buddy considerate and above all respect others .....

Try to be a real Right angle .. ;-)


prabha said...

I am more proud to call myself a 'Tamilian' than a Gounder. Although we should respect our caste, we should be united under one Umbrella, that is 'Mother Tamil'. It is our only identity.Long live Great Tamil.

Right Angle said...

Mr. Eagle,

If you really want to debate, you can avoid personal attacks against me.. it doesnt matter, if i am crooked or insane or whatever you call me..

The topic which we debate matters here..

If you are wise enough to have such refined debate, i can continue further..

Right Angle said...


/** Untouchability is one of the besetting crimes of the Hinduism and EVR's role in eradicating the same is indisputable ...Read history to understand that ...

Untouchability is not a crime, and the EVR did not have any role in eradicating it.. the very reason is because, untouchability is mutually practiced by all castes..

I challenge you.. you can go to any of the SC communities, and enquire if they would mix with another Dalit community.. they will not even drink water..

Untouchability is one of the arrangement, where conflicting cultures had a way to live together without disturbing each other.

Infact, untouchability remained as a protective barrier to the dalit community.. That's why we did not have any genocide, and we did not have any slavery or the kind of slave abuses as happened in america..

I request you to first read original history and then comment.. NOt the distorted one, which you study in school text books and DK magazines.

Right Angle said...

/** You are comfortable because of the hardwork of the people like him ...If not for him, Anna and Kalaignar we all (meaning all non-brahmins) will be doing the menial jobs and the Brahmins will be ruling the roost

What are the menial jobs that you are mentioning.. and how those jobs appear as menial..

IF not for periyar, i would be doing agriculture.. do you think it as menial?
OR do you think labour work as menial?
How do you build your house? Did you family members mixed the concrete, prepared the bricks and constructed the house?

First think rationally in true terms.. NOt the pseudo rationality of the DKs..

Right Angle said...

/** I am more proud to call myself a 'Tamilian' than a Gounder. Although we should respect our caste, we should be united under one Umbrella, that is 'Mother Tamil'. It is our only identity.Long live Great Tamil.

Prabha.. when you call yourself as gounder, you are connecting with a 5000 year old history, that dates back to IVC..

Pls refer to the mangala vaazthu, where kambar calls us "Ganga kula" people.. which means, the people of origins of ganga..
and if you want more details, compare the culture of the present day farmers of UP, and you will see lot of cultural similarities, including facial..
If not convinced, try to get mckinsey documents, and read it..

When you call yourself as Tamilian, you are connecting with a racist group, which used tamil for their personal and divisive agenda.. you are isolating yourself, and becoming a racist.. tamil nadu is a concept that only occured recently..

Tamil has strong association with other indic languages and mainly sanskrit.. For example, what is the tamil word for "Katha"?

Eagle said...

Right Angle,

Unconditional apologies for the perceived personal attack .....controversial word withdrawn ...

And am not for debate ...If I could make a 10% change in your viewpoints that is enough for me ...

Untouchability is a crime. Period. As per Indian constitution. As per moral and ethical standards.

*None* of the religion espouses the cause of untouchability. Untouchability/apartheid/racism are all manifestations of the same problem. All are man made. By power hungry zealots. To protect himself. To show superiority. To establish supremacy by divide and rule. To show one race is superior to other.

Manu shastra says

If the Sudra intentionally listens for committing to memory the Veda, then his ears should be filled with molten lead and lac; if he utters the Veda, then his tongue should be cut off, if he has mastered the Veda his body should be cut to pieces'

Will any educated person accept something as stupid as above ??

Please don't try to justify historical blunders. History is not always good - we say present is bad - but the past is worse - only the past gave us - untouchability, child marriage, sati, oppression against women and lot more social in-equalities.

All are tolerated (because of no alternate choice) in a feudal and monarchy type of environment. But it need not be same in today's democratic world. Here all are equal. At-least legally. Equal opportunity is a fundamental right. There should not be any discrimination based on sex, religion, caste etc. Fundamental right to practice religion (caste?) is guaranteed but not to exploit others.

But today, BC/MBC/OBC's are more non-tolerant/militant towards SC/ST's than Brahmins. Brahmins practice soft bias/racism against other communities. As a whole Indians are attacked racially elsewere (Australia). That is the reality. If you think you are superior in one place in other place you are inferior.

Education doesn't seem to make any difference in eradicating the social menace. Worldwide, movements are there to reduce racism. While as a nation India condemns racism, it maintains a stoic silence on its internal racism - untouchability.

In this Internet age - where boundaries are blurred and where nations do not exist - I feel mentioning about these backward practices is itself meaningless, leave alone discussing it - ironically in an Internet tool !!!!

Your views border almost on extreme right-wing. Equivalent of Ku-Klux-Klan.

I assume you work in Bangalore/Chennai but your native is Erode/Kovai. Imagine while travelling back home you are thrown out from your railway compartment by a Brahmin/North Indian - saying your caste/colour as the reason ....

You should be thankful for leaders like Gandhiji, EVR that such a situation does not exist in India today ..

Its easy to criticize them - but it is difficult to understand what they said, leave alone following it.


Right Angle said...

/** If I could make a 10% change in your viewpoints that is enough for me

This is the core problem here.. you consider yourself as moral authority and attempt to change me.. instead of debating, your aim is changing me..

/**Untouchability is a crime. Period. As per Indian constitution. As per moral and ethical standards.

Untouchability is NOT a crime.. period..

/** *None* of the religion espouses the cause of untouchability. Untouchability/apartheid/racism are all manifestations of the same problem. All are man made. By power hungry zealots. To protect himself. To show superiority. To establish supremacy by divide and rule. To show one race is superior to other.

Good comedy.. first read about religions, and then read about history.. before that, first open up your mind for alternate views..

Can i quote some most harshest lines from other religions? You can search yourself in net.. try that..

You cannot impose your dogma as history.. you need to first observe facts and then interpret..

Right Angle said...

Manu shastra says

If the Sudra intentionally listens for committing to memory the Veda, then his ears should be filled with molten lead and lac; if he utters the Veda, then his tongue should be cut off, if he has mastered the Veda his body should be cut to pieces'

Ok.. how many persons have been punished with pouring lead? Please give me a list, so that we can discuss further..

"ஸ்ரீரங்கத்தையும், சிதம்பரத்தையும் எந்த நாள் தகர்க்கிறோமோ, அந்த நாள்தான் பொன்னாள்"

The above quote was uttered by one of your "Pahutharivu" thalaivar.. that too in a modern times of 20th century..
You seem to have no issues in accepting this.. because it is pahutharivu..

/** Please don't try to justify historical blunders. History is not always good - we say present is bad - but the past is worse - only the past gave us - untouchability, child marriage, sati, oppression against women and lot more social in-equalities.

All are tolerated (because of no alternate choice) in a feudal and monarchy type of environment. But it need not be same in today's democratic world. Here all are equal. At-least legally. Equal opportunity is a fundamental right. There should not be any discrimination based on sex, religion, caste etc. Fundamental right to practice religion (caste?) is guaranteed but not to exploit others.

Please try to quote with substantiation.. When you close your mind, there can be no discussions.. you can accuse me of anything, and you will always take the moral authority and start advicing me..

Good and bad things are highly relative.. in the world of rapists and murderers, a petty thief would be the most good person..

In the world of saints and wise people, the same thief will be the most bad person..

SO, judge history based on world occurances..

I have already pointed you about american slave system there.. the slaves dont have any protection, and the owner buy and sell them at their wishes.. the slave women were sexually exploited at will..

Such brutality did not happen in india, because, untouchability provided a psychological barrier b/w communities.. this prevented dominant communities from exploiting weaker ones,..

Also, indian history of polity is always consensus based.. take down any village panchayat.. it will show you that the judge themselves has to give judgement before the people.. Not like the current ones..

In our historic tradition, the people had always the right to oppose.. if people find a king as unjust, they instantly moved to nearby one who provides justice..

So, come out of the well and see the world in full perspective..

To actually know more about our history, read dharampal's books at the following url..

Particularly download the book "The beautiful tree" and read it..

Right Angle said...

/** I assume you work in Bangalore/Chennai but your native is Erode/Kovai. Imagine while travelling back home you are thrown out from your railway compartment by a Brahmin/North Indian - saying your caste/colour as the reason ....

So periyarists throwing away brahmins is not an issue..

Btw, as far as i have known, no brahmins had thrown dalits out.. its only the OBC and BC's who could have done that..

YOu claim to oppose racism.. but showing so much of anti-brahminism in your comments.. what kind of stand it is?

Eagle said...

Dear Right Angle,

1. On Untouchability - Untouchability is a crime. Criminal offense. As per Indian constitution. As per article 17 of Indian Constitution - "Untouchability" is abolished and its practice in any form is forbidden .....
In addition to this there is "Protection of civil rights act 1955" which details the actions or activities which are prohibited under rule of law.
(The fact that Article 17 is not 100% enforced and there are people clamoring for the removal/amendment to PCR act is a different matter).

2. On American Slavery and untoucability - American slavery is 100% abolished now. Nobody practices slavery now. We can be 100% sure. The same cannot be said of Untouchability. Though blacks still face some sort of discrimination in USA, due to the US Govt's affirmative action lot of blacks have improved a lot in life - Obama's, Jackson's, Williams are few example.

And on the sexual exploitation - the exploitation of the Dalit and the under-privileged women by Zamindars and wealthy landlords are well known. As late as 1930-1940's the Nairs of Kerala used to exploited their women workers by asking them to work topless ....

3. I alluded the story of "throwing out of train .." to remind the struggle of Mahatma Gandhi - This particular incident spurred Gandhi to fight against the imperialism and dominance of Whites ....Probably if he and/or other social reformers have not fought for the fundamental rights may be our/your situation today will be like that (Dominated by a upper caste/religion/race person)

4. I did say that the Dalits face more problem from OBC/BC's rather than Brahmins. And Brahmins though outwardly not vociferous in showing casteist tendencies, do practice soft-racism in workplace, temples and religious institutions.


Right Angle said...

Mr. Eagle,

I am not debating based on indian constitution.. I am debating based on common sense..

Please use your brain, and then compare the incidents..

/** On American Slavery and untoucability - American slavery is 100% abolished now. Nobody practices slavery now. We can be 100% sure. The same cannot be said of Untouchability. Though blacks still face some sort of discrimination in USA, due to the US Govt's affirmative action lot of blacks have improved a lot in life - Obama's, Jackson's, Williams are few example

So because few people are known to you, should we assume, all blacks are developed?

More than 90% of the criminals in US are blacks.. Freedom need not always do good to one.. the blacks were all of sudden left to fend for themselves, without any moral support or guidance, that subsequent generations became anti-social elements..
Education and freedom will work only if there is a culture and community..

Ok.. that's a different case..

I was mentioning about US slavery to drive you a point that untouchability is thousand times better than those, and that untouchability in india is mutually practiced by all communities, and that even though it may be odd, but its largely NOT harmful..

If you dont understand my point, i cannot do anything..

/** And on the sexual exploitation - the exploitation of the Dalit and the under-privileged women by Zamindars and wealthy landlords are well known. As late as 1930-1940's the Nairs of Kerala used to exploited their women workers by asking them to work topless

First, the zamindar system is NOT part of caste system..
Second, the zamindari and landlord concept was first introduced by muslim kings and rather exploited by britishers..

Thirdly, the fact some of the landlords made women to work topless is NOT attributed to caste system or untouchability in general.. its a localised incident, that occured because there is no native king to regulate..

Right Angle said...

/** I alluded the story of "throwing out of train .." to remind the struggle of Mahatma Gandhi - This particular incident spurred Gandhi to fight against the imperialism and dominance of Whites ....Probably if he and/or other social reformers have not fought for the fundamental rights may be our/your situation today will be like that (Dominated by a upper caste/religion/race person)


The incident of gandhi occured in southafrica, thrown out by white britishers.. such racism prevailed only in europe, and NOT in india..

The concept of higher caste and lower caste is a european one, where nobles exploited the serfs..

In india, there is no such higher caste or lower caste.. the so called higher caste brahmins in india lived a disciplined life, with lot of restrictions, without any political power..

There is no concept of higher or lower.. there was both upward and downward mobility of castes in india..

So, dont confuse the european system with indian one.. this is the mistake that most of the indians do, because of academic propoganda.. both are entirely different..

Btw, have you read dharampal's books?

Right Angle said...

/** I did say that the Dalits face more problem from OBC/BC's rather than Brahmins. And Brahmins though outwardly not vociferous in showing casteist tendencies, do practice soft-racism in workplace, temples and religious institutions

Every community faced the usual problem.. the dalits of one region are the masters of another region.. (Eg: in ariyalur district, the paraiyars are dominant community)

But to attribute everything to brahmins is completely wrong..

The problems faced by dalit is nothing compared to what brahmins faced because of dravidian racists..

Eagle said...

Right Angle Buddy,

Guess you are missing my main point and deviating by answering to the specifics .....And see who is aggressive and abusive now .... ha ha ....

The beauty of debate/argument is both sides can go on arguing without coming to any conclusion - with neither side budging ...
This is the same world which has both Internet and Taliban together differing views will always be there ...let it be ....

To keep it simple - I dont want to argue on the Muslims angle and Europeans angle .....and how good or bad we were in the past ....

The current reality is -
1.Dalits are dominated by OBC/MBC's
2. There is soft-racism by Brahmins.

My original grouse against KVG's is - though they are one of the advanced communities in terms of social standing, business, education and agriculture - why do they want to ride on the caste bandwagon - and their top two demands - repealing/amendment of PCR act and exclusive reservation of KVG'S is uncalled for ....

If you ask me who am I to question this .....well ....Good Luck ...

And I have heard about Dharmpals books but not read them ...



Right Angle said...

/** This is the same world which has both Internet and Taliban together

what's relation b/w taliban & internet.. totally unrelated comparison..
The taliban are using internet more than us..

/** To keep it simple - I dont want to argue on the Muslims angle and Europeans angle .....and how good or bad we were in the past ....

If you dont want to argue on muslim angle or european angle, the better leave everything else also..

As i said earlier, the issue has to be discussed only on relative comparison, and NOT in isolation..

/** The current reality is -
1.Dalits are dominated by OBC/MBC's
2. There is soft-racism by Brahmins.

3. There is heavy, hard & violent racism by dravidian racists..

/** My original grouse against KVG's is - though they are one of the advanced communities in terms of social standing, business, education and agriculture - why do they want to ride on the caste bandwagon - and their top two demands - repealing/amendment of PCR act and exclusive reservation of KVG'S is uncalled for ....

TO understand this, you need to first understand the reality of caste system, with open mind..

for that you need to read Dharampal's book..

unless the above happens, what ever i say, you will never understand or accept..

regarding PCR, most of it are abused by the SC's.. i have seen many families who were affected because of this act, when the dalit worker has to pay any debt or loan back to the farmer..

Right Angle said...

Mr. Eagle,

YOu are writing like a typical academecian.. You are sensationalising and blowing up the issue..

We can also write comments like you.. see it below..

The pain of havenots unable to survive in the society...
The cornering of resources by the riches and discriminating the poor.
The pain of being exploited by the urban elites for the paltry sum..
The pain of slum dwellers, whose area of living is looted by the urbanites.
The pain of hunger, because there is no money to live in..

The pain of disease, unable to pay heft doctor fees,

The pain of the rural people, who were exploited to the core by the urban elites.

The urban sewages being diverted to rural areas, spoiling their livelyhood, their environment..

I can list out so on and on and on..

The very life of an urbanite discriminates the rural people..

It is the urbanites who are using slumdwellers to clean their toilets, and clean their septic tanks..

You cannot find those in rural villages..

In rural villages, the dalits had a means to live, even without a single penny..

In rural villages, eventhough untouchability existed, the higher caste always helped them in times of difficulty..

In kongu belt, at every harvest season, a share of the produce will be shared to all sections of the villages.. This practice was existing till 1990's..

In villages, the dalits have the freedom to have their own temples for worship and community festival..

The list continues further..

So, please stop emotionalising and sensationalising issues, and deal with it practically..

It is the so called intellectuals, who use the slum dwellers for cleaning their streets, the garbages, the sewage canals,
and go to their office in a car, and write about dalit empowerment..

I dont want that hypocrisy here..

Right Angle said...

Mr. Eagle,

/** Why do they prefer Urban filth over the healthy rural ?

Please tell me the reason.. i will explain later.

/** Atleast here they can be on their own - there is no two tumbler system in cities, they can go to any restaurants - as long as they can pay nobody will ask them to go out, they can go to any temples - they can roam on any streets

YOu seem to paint a rosy picture of the cities which is not true..

First tell me, what is wrong with two tumbler system.

Secondly, in cities everything is only for commercial.. but even then, a typical restaurant will not allow a dalit, if he wears the rural dress..
Also, leave alone dalit.. can a rural people in his rural attire enter a 5 star hotel? They will not allow, becoz its reserved only for those elite..

But in traditional rural villages, every household will offer food, whenever a dalit comes.. that is the spirit of villages.. Not only dalit.. any one can survive even without money.. but in cities, without money, they cannot live even for one day..

/** With all its limitations and imperfections, market economy and the urban life is the solace for the underprivileged - at least it gives them an opportunity to be on their own - and they try to understand the word known as FREEDOM.

Oh great.. cities can have any limitations or imperfections.. but its good.. but rural system cannot have any imperfection..
I cannot understand your logic..

Urban life solace for underprivileged.. how? do you call slum dwellers as solace?

Btw, its known to everyone, that rural villages had limited opportunities, due to urban centric government policies.. its your biased view that you see this as dalit oppression..

The real freedom for a man is the freedom to live with his family, with his child, and to have a living space.. Village provides these things..
No one ties the dalits in villages.. they have their own freedom.. But your pre-defined belief doesnt allow you to see those..

/** and which, though constitutionally and by rule of law is granted to them, but denied mostly in villages.

This is a false statement.. dalits have their freedom in villages..
Lack of opportunities doesnt mean lack of freedom..

Right Angle said...

/** Atleast in Urban areas they are less exploited ....

Here you are exposed.. and its a surprise, how you termed less exploited.. do you have any metrics in exploitation?

Actually, the entire urban system is exploiting the entire rural system.. the sewage the urban system produces is thrown in to rural villages polluting the living environment of the rural villagers..

This is the greatest exploitation and discrimination.. ie the destruction of the very livelihood of the villagers..

Secondly, the hard work of the villagers, is being valued very cheap by the urbanites.. the government did not allow the villagers to fix a price for their food produce.. and the urbanites bargain even for one rupee..

This is second most exploitation..

Next, the urbanites look down upon the rural villagers.. the very term countryfraud, indicates the utter racism and discrimination..

So, mr. eagle.. first answer and work towards eliminating these racist discriminations.. and then we can talk about dalits..

NOw you are playing a game that those dalits who join your urban system can have the freedom to further exploit the rural people..

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